Pippin, Season 3 EP33

A week of pure theatre joy collided with our favourite kind of head-scratching: we cheered the Wicked concert on telly, melted over Paddington the Musical’s adorable staging, then rolled up our sleeves for a frank, funny tour of Pippin’s brilliant weirdness. From marmalade charm to circus edge, the theme is the same: how musicals seduce us with shimmer while nudging us toward something real.

We start with the big headlines. Wicked’s TV special hints at the future of musical marketing, mixing a 37-piece orchestra with world-premiere sneak peeks. Paddington opens in London with a quietly dazzling twist: two performers share the bear, one inside the suit and one off-stage handling voice and facial animation. It looks warm, inventive and right. And yes, Avenue Q has the West End buzzing again, because who doesn’t want a two-puppet day?

Then we zoom in on Pippin. Stephen Schwartz’s score is a treasure box: Magic to Do, Corner of the Sky, Morning Glow and No Time at All sound fresh, hooky and surprisingly tender. Yet the show’s conceit—a troupe led by a charismatic ringmaster luring a prince toward meaning via spectacle—still splits rooms. We unpack why the story confuses, where Fosse’s fingerprints sharpen the edge, and how Patina Miller’s leading player in the 2013 revival reframed the role with gender-flipped power. Along the way we dig into the show’s odd milestones, like Broadway’s first TV ad showing onstage footage, and the way schools love Pippin for its ensemble, even as parents ask what on earth just happened.

The takeaway is simple and thorny. Beware charisma that promises the perfect ending. Compromise is not failure; it’s adulthood. And sometimes the bravest choice is a quiet life with the people you love. Cue a final nod to the cast recordings, some lyrics worth framing, and a few laughs about overtures, puppets, and the eternal pull of a hummable tune.

If this mix of hype and honesty hits home, follow the show, leave a quick review, and share this episode with a theatre friend who still argues about Pippin’s ending. What should we see first on our London trip—Paddington or Avenue Q?

End of MLL

Chapters

• 0:50 Catch-Up, Birthdays And Tray Bakes
• 3:53 Wicked TV Concert Hype And New Songs
• 6:35 Paddington The Musical Opens In London
• 9:31 Avenue Q Tease And London Plans
• 10:23 Enter Pippin: History, Creators, Legacy
• 13:05 Plot, Themes And Why It Confuses
• 17:11 Awards, Ads And Ben Vereen’s Impact
• 21:34 The 2013 Revival And Gender-Flip Casting
• 24:32 Controversies, Politics And School Popularity
• 27:27 What We Learned From The Lyrics
• 34:34 Quotes, History Nuggets And Takeaways
• 40:25 Standout Songs And Cast Recording Praise

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Hello and welcome to Musical Lyrical Lingo. We're your hosts, Tim.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

And LJ. Today and every week we will be discussing musicals, but specifically what they taught us.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

And we're back.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

Yes, we are again.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Thank you for listening, continuing to listen and to like and to share the pod. We're still ringing in your ears.

SPEAKER_03 0:45

They love us. They really, really love us.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Yes, indeed. So how are you?

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Good. Yes, things are great. I mean we feel very strange. My daughter turned 14.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

This very day.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

This very day that we are recording.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

She's very kindly allowed us to record.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

I know. Because she herself is out at musical theatre rehearsals.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Shock horror. Like she'd be doing anything else on her 14th birthday. Happy birthday, CJ. I know.

SPEAKER_03 1:15

So, but yeah, it's it's a it's a strange one, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

You're a mother of a 14-year-old, how you think.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Whenever the kids start to become the age ages that you still remember being.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Do you still remember being 14?

SPEAKER_03 1:29

Still remember being in year 10, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

No, couldn't tell you what I was doing at 14. Couldn't, couldn't tell you.

SPEAKER_03 1:36

Can you not remember like what we were doing in school in year 10?

SPEAKER_00 1:39

No, what were we doing in year 10?

SPEAKER_03 1:41

Well, I know what you were definitely doing sports day in year 10.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

We've had this on the podcast. Okay, I was a school mascot for sports day, but that was every year. It wasn't just a year 10.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

No, but that was definitely the cat year.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Was that the cat year? How do you remember that was the actual catch year? We're not actually, why am I talking about this? We're not we're not talking about this again. I dressed up as Mr. Mistopheles, okay?

SPEAKER_02 2:05

I was doing my See, you love to share. You're like, okay, we're not talking about this, and then you go into Well, the thing is, Lauren, we're doing a podcast.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

So if I was to come on to the podcast and refuse to talk about all of these things that you rake up, it would be a really boring podcast.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

You're just jealous because your memory's not as good as mine.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

I'm just absolutely livid. You keep bringing it up. Anyway, we'll move on.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

Yeah, we'll move on.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

I can't believe you. Uh and I also had the most beautiful 15. You did made by your son. He's very good.

SPEAKER_03 2:39

He is very good.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

People who don't know what a 15 is, describe it really quickly because we're not really a cuisine podcast, but I feel we need to.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

So it's a Northern Irish delicacy.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

And it is made, it's a tray bake, which is a treat, like a button.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Um, and it is made up of digestives, glacier cherries, marshmallows, condensed milk, and coconut. But he has celiac disease, so um this is one of the nice tray bakes that we can make, which tastes decent. Yeah. So but Ethan's little trick is he uses chocolate digestives. So there's a little bit of chocolate inside it.

Wicked TV Concert Hype And New Songs

SPEAKER_00 3:15

I felt it. Not felt it. I tasted it. I didn't feel it. I tasted it. I felt it as it went down. It went down very easily. There you go. I'm sure you didn't expect to come on to this podcast and hear us talking about tri-bakes and treats. But talking about treats.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

What have been the treats in the musical theatre world?

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Well, here's the thing. My first treat is really is a treat, and I'm so looking forward to it. But the problem is when this episode comes out, it will have already been out probably two weeks. But if you haven't already watched it, hint hint, we need to make sure, listeners, you all go back and watch Wicked One Wonderful Night.

SPEAKER_03 3:52

I know.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

Musical concert special.

SPEAKER_03 3:56

Isn't that amazing that they're doing that for a musical?

SPEAKER_00 3:58

It's so very exciting. So it was on Sky or Night TV on the 8th of November. Yeah. We haven't seen it yet. But I mean, if you did see it, you know, many years we have waited for a concert like this to appear, you will have seen Cynthia and Cynthia Revo and Ariana Grande lead a special 2R musical event. Here, they must be getting paid, something shocking. That promises to be a celebration of the upcoming Wicked for Good musical. Now we have also booked our tickets for that, haven't we? We're going on the Friday, folks. Very excited. This special had 37-piece orchestra, and other members of the filming the film cast performed. Not Jonathan Bailey.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

No.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

He was sadly unable to attend, but it also debuted the world premiere clips from Wicked for Good. Did you enjoy watching the clips? And it's also going to feature two new original songs.

SPEAKER_03 5:09

Yes, that Ariana has written or helped her.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

I've got written by Steven Swartz.

SPEAKER_03 5:16

I think she's had it and she's helped out very good.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Now here's the thing when we do eventually watch this, because I haven't said not Jan. I think I'm going to fast forward those bits. I don't know if I want to hear the new songs until I see the film.

SPEAKER_03 5:31

I know I think it's odd. It should have come out the same week as the film. Because then you would be able to be like, oh, I want more, I want more.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Or should we just not watch, although this could absolutely be torturous first, should we not watch this musical concert special until we've seen Wicked for Good and then we can watch it?

SPEAKER_03 5:54

Or how about we watch highlights of songs that we already know and then don't watch a full thing until after we might have to do that then.

Paddington The Musical Opens In London

SPEAKER_00 6:02

There's so many options. But what a treat. Like they are spoiling us by having this like concert special. Something else that we've been spoiled with, and we actually immediately started talking about it before when I came in tonight. And we don't normally talk musical theatre when we arrive, but Paddington the Musical has officially opened in London, and everything about it just seems to be perfect.

SPEAKER_03 6:29

Just beautiful, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Absolutely perfect.

SPEAKER_03 6:33

Like romantic in a way that makes you feel warm and fuzzy, you know, like it's just I don't know how to describe it anymore.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Even in a world where we you always hear so much about a new musical before it opens, but they still with this musical they manage to keep relatively very little um in the media. Like we only have two songs from it. Those two songs, if they don't sell the show to you on their own, like I don't know, they are I keep listening to pretty little dead things. Like it's brilliant, and that one that we talked about already in the pod, like it is like the perfect ingredients for a musical, right? So Tom Fletcher is pretty class. I think he could be like the next big musical theatre composer.

SPEAKER_03 7:31

Well, that that's exciting because that's what he's been able to do for such a beloved character.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

I mean, it's a poison chalice, isn't it? Because you don't want to get this wrong.

SPEAKER_03 7:42

No.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Because everybody loves Paddington.

SPEAKER_03 7:45

That's it. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

And the biggest secret that they kept was Paddington. And we now know that Paddington is being played by two performers, Artie Shah, who uh will don the costume to play live on stage, and then James Hamm Hammied, who is credited as an off-stage performer and will do both his voice and remotely control his facial expressions, and the picture, like the video of the first curtain call. Oh my goodness, it's just adorable. Adorable.

SPEAKER_03 8:15

And I think it's really interesting that it's the actor that is doing the voice is controlling the facial expressions.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Yeah, I I'm I'm puzzled by that. I want to know more. I want to know is he wearing something on his face off stage, which will, you know, so his facial expressions will then be the facial expressions that appear on on the bear. Surely, because if you're voicing it and you're singing and you're like having to use remote controls or whatever, that would be really difficult.

SPEAKER_03 8:50

Yeah, it must it must be like movie tech.

Avenue Q Tease And London Plans

SPEAKER_00 8:53

Do you reckon? I have no idea, but like how exciting. I know we're already planning our London trip, aren't we? And the last piece of musical theatre news for this week, because it only came out today. Avenue Q is coming back to West End next year. I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_03 9:10

Like, so that's really random. That was only whispers of that yesterday. And then, well, whispers as in there was a big yellow sign that said something's coming to the and then Avenue.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

And lots of people will be happy about it. Yeah. EP, Aaron, he'll be excited. He liked Avenue Q.

SPEAKER_03 9:28

But it is.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

I know lots of other people who liked Avenue Q.

SPEAKER_03 9:31

It feels right, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 9:33

It does. I think we should maybe plan another of our London trips and go and see Avenue Q in Parrington.

SPEAKER_03 9:39

Signs a Two Puppet Show.

Enter Pippin: History, Creators, Legacy

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Two Puppets. Two Puppet Show Day. What else could you want? So from the sublime. Oh my goodness, I haven't said that word in a very long time on the pod. To the ridiculous. Let's talk about today's musical. Pippin. Absolutely. Pippin. Insane. 1972 musical with music and lyrics by Stephen Schwartz. Yeah. As we've already talked about, of wicked fame, but he did this first. Um and book by Roger O. Pearson. Yeah. Bob Fossey also is cr should be credited for directing the original Broadway production. Yes. And he also contributed to the libretto.

SPEAKER_03 10:25

He did, he did. So does that mean that there was like a little bit of a rework once he started to direct it? Then he changed.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

I think so. I think a lot was changing as they were working on it.

SPEAKER_03 10:36

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

I do believe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:39

So it's based on the fictitious, like I can't say that word.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Fix fictitious fic fictitious fiction.

SPEAKER_03 10:47

Life of Pippin, the hunchback, the son of the Charles Main.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Charlemagne.

SPEAKER_03 10:53

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

Have you listened to the musical? Because it is meant Charlemagne is mentioned a couple of times.

SPEAKER_03 11:02

Because I look well, you know what I'm like. I read and I say things like how it's written. But even though it's based on something, it's still very serious.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

So but but then to be honest, like that story in itself is a bit bizarre. So the story follows the prince, Charlemagne's eldest and heir, as he roams the countryside looking for purpose. He tries lots of different things. He tries conflict, getting into conflict, one night stands. Yep. Patricide. Now when I read that, I was like, that's reminded me of Lauren because one of the first musical lyrical lingos we talked about was Fratricide. Fratricide. So this time we're talking about patricide and home life with a young widow named Catherine and her son. Oh, sounds so ridiculous. I know. Before being lured into thinking suicide as the ultimate method for uh living life to the full.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Thankfully, at the last minute, Pippin rejects this call and returns to the quiet, boring but happy life with Catherine. Poor Catherine, with the life with her being described as quiet and boring.

Plot, Themes And Why It Confuses

SPEAKER_03 12:11

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. There was so it was 1972. Then there was a 73 West End production. There was a 74 US tour. And then again, I think there was a couple of tours, maybe a couple of years after that in 77. Came alive again in 2006. And then a Broadway revival in 2013. And that's kind of been it, apart from this December, when there's a revival.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Where's the revival? This is in the West End. Right, okay. And is it just like a limited Christmassy kind of thing? Yeah, I mean, yeah. I mean, yeah, that's all I can really say about it.

SPEAKER_03 12:57

I find this very hard to get my head around. I love the idea of it all. Like whenever it's like on paper, I'm like, oh yes, that's really cool. And it is kind of of its time, and it's a little bit darker and a bit like all that type of theatre that you hated whenever we were doing theater studies. Yes. This is stuff that you you're like, why am I doing this? Well, I quite enjoy the intrigue and the you know, breaking the fourth wall and turning things on his head. But I just still don't know if I get Pippin.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

I laugh because one of my colleagues in work uh saw a like amateur or youth production of Pippin during the summer, and she, you know, when we went back to school in September, she was like, Oh, I went to see Pippin during the summer, and she just looked at me with this like like blank face going, sure I get it. Tim, what the hell was that about? She was like, It was very good, but I could not make head nor tail of what was going on, yeah. And I think that that is the problem. This surrealist drama is hard to get your head round. What I would say was Pippin did bring contemporary rock tunes to the stage that kept the audiences humming. They also it and it was also supported by an award-winning performance from the actor Ben Veren. Yes, and I think he probably had a huge amount to do with establishing it in as you know a musical. You know, he had just come off what had he just done before that? Jesus Christ Superstar. He had just come off Jesus Christ Superstar. He was known, he was a name in the theatre world, and here he was taken on the part of this lead player. So the musical uses the premise of a mysterious performance trip led by a lead player to tell the story of Pippen. Throughout this lead player directs Pippin's actions like a puppet master, and it's observed by the audience but not always perceived by Pippin himself. So there's another layer. As you said, the show premiered at the Imperial Theatre in October 1972, and it ran for 1,944 performances before closing. Also, interestingly, about this unusual musical was that it was a winner of five Tony Awards, including Best Performance for Lead Actor in a Musical, Best Direction, Best Choreographer, Best Scenic and Best Lighting Design. It was also nominated for six others.

SPEAKER_03 15:37

I know, I know. Like, I think it was it was grabbing of the time, you know. People were like, Oh, it is something different that's on a bit like what Lloyd Weber did with cats. Do you know what I mean? People, it's so absurd because of the time. It was like, this is so different, and this is making mega musical noise. So I think that's where it's got a little bit of a following, but I still am like it still sits on the edge for me.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Oh, listen, I don't think this is a musical that I would rush to the theatre to see. I very much enjoy Stephen Schwartz's music. I think the songs are fantastic and catchy, and as we just said, like hummable, you know, you remember them, they stay in your head. I just I think I would be like my colleague, and I'd go, What the hell was that about?

SPEAKER_03 16:28

So weird that it was partially financed by Motown Records.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

I thought that too, like so bizarre.

Awards, Ads And Ben Vereen’s Impact

SPEAKER_03 16:34

Like, like how did they decide that they were going to finance this musical? Written, can we just explain? Schwartz was 20 when he wrote it. He started writing this in university.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

Well, that's it. That the story he he wanted to to do it when he was in in uni.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

And a ye and it was a year after Godspel as well, making him the one of the youngest composers and lyricists in Broadway history to have had two shows playing concurrently, so obviously Godspell followed by Pippin. Also quite th another thing that I thought was quite interesting was it broke it broke new ground because the advertising of the original Broadway production uh was the first TV commercial that actually showed scenes from a Broadway show. Oh yeah, so it was the first and America that's a big thing. Like they advertised that well, certainly when I would have been over you know, when we went on holiday, I don't know if they still do it.

SPEAKER_03 17:46

They definitely do it in New York, advertise in Broadway. Yeah. Do you actually get to see snippets of the performances on stage?

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Which is quite exciting.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

We barely get actually even adverts for musicals.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

London is very closed off.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Like you just do you see very little. I mean, we're so fortunate as musical theatre fans now that don't live in London that we see so much because people record and social media is such a big thing now, and they wrote, you know, it's it's their own videos that they take. But no, Pippin was the first. Oh I didn't know uh yeah, the 32nd commercial showed bet Ben Varin and two chorus dancers in an instrumental dance sequence of Glory, one of the songs in the musical.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

It did open in the West End, as you then said, in 1973 and ran for 85 performances. Quite interesting, I thought uh Louise Quick, one of Fossey's personal assistants, and Jean Foute, maybe an original cast member, they co-directed that the West End performance with Fosse's original staging and choreography. Yeah. Now it came Pippen came into my kind of world mostly with that Broadway revival you were talking about recently. So it was a new production that was developed originally for the American Repertoire Theatre in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and the role of the leading player was played by Pettina Miller, and we know Petina from Sister Act, like the original Dolores Van Cartier on stage. Miller was nervous initially to take on the role because recreating a character originated by the highly acclaimed Varen, that would be daunting. However, the challenge presented by such a role and the representational power of the gender-blind casting outweighed her apprehension, and the production then transferred to Broadway in March 2013 at the Music Box Theatre. It a bit like the original Broadway production won four Tony's out of ten nominations. So both highly nominated won Best Revival, Best Featured Actress for Andrea Martin as Bertha Bertha, and Best Direction. Now for such a weird musical, there's a lot of like you know, firsts or special moments. Bettina Miller won a Tony for her role as the leading player, which made Pippin the first musical to feature actors of different genders that won Tony's for the same role. Burnham. Which is really cool.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

Yeah, Burnham.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

So as much as it's very quirker, quirky and very out there, and probably not our kettle you know, not everybody's like cup of tea. Cup of tea. I went to say kettle of fish. What on what's wrong with my head? There's a lot to talk about.

The 2013 Revival And Gender-Flip Casting

SPEAKER_03 21:00

Yeah, no, there definitely is. And in 1981, there was a film production. Yeah. And rights, I think, from the Broadway revival and the sort of like buzz around it, the film rights were obtained in 2013, but they have been quietly given back to Schwartz because of the controversy around Harvey Weinstein's company.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 21:19

And that going bankrupt. And that's not really the only controversy around Pippen. There's sex and violence and a lot of politics in it. And I think that's where it sort of sits on the edge. And that's what sometimes theatre can do well, is it can highlight issues and like bring it to the forefront and let people go away and decide for themselves. But some people felt that the way some of the direction was that it was being the the political side was being forced on them. And that's where some people are.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Well, that's where the shutters come down for some people. It's not.

SPEAKER_03 21:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:56

But it does have that similar Schwartz feel, especially if you know he wrote it around the same time as God Spell. Obviously, it it doesn't it's not exactly the same, but it is a trip. It is people putting on you know a performance. So there's a nice, a nice familiarity to it, I suppose. But maybe it's just the source material, maybe it's just the actual life of Pippen is a bit odd. Though I get Hamlet vibes too.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Yeah, fair. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:25

You know, like that sort of is it around the same No, uh maybe I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

I don't know actually, but Time, no, time stamp, no. Um, I mean, as of January 2024, the original run of Pippin, it was still the 37th longest running Broadway show.

SPEAKER_03 22:47

Yeah, and it's very popular in America. Yeah. It's a very and there's a great show on Disney Plus. Do you remember whenever Disney Plus first launched, whenever we were in COVID times? Um and Christian Bell did a show called Encore.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

And it was about going back, and I did tweet that show back whenever people used to tweet and be like, please, my whole like friendship group, we could do this show. And they did like retweet me back and all, but did they? We're still waiting five years later. Never came. Um but I rem I remember Pippin from it was a young teenage company, did Pippin, and I remember at that time being like, Oh yeah, that's that weird show. There does that, you know, and I thought, oh, that's strange that a high school would choose Pippin. Yeah. But I actually realized that loads of high schools in America do Pippin. And I suppose it's that ensemble part two, you know, there's a line of characters in it.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

But yeah. What the hell was that? Like it was I thought I was gonna wet myself when she said that. Will we talk about like what we learned from it then? Yeah, other than it's really bizarre and hard to follow.

SPEAKER_03 24:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

I mean, it has one of the best opening numbers, a hundred percent.

Controversies, Politics And School Popularity

SPEAKER_03 24:06

And that's my standard location as well. Like and it's as you mentioned, the song is.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

You're supposed to do that at the end of the episode.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

No, but I just mean like that is as you said earlier, so hummable. And and then you I sometimes forget that that is from Pippin, where I'm like, Oh, I love that bass song. And I'm like, oh yes, that's from that strange musical.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

It's a super song to throw in if you're doing a musical concert or it's such a good opening song. Join us, yeah, leave your yeah, it's great. We're talking about magic to do. So what did you learn from magic to do then?

SPEAKER_03 24:45

Um I'm not sure if there was Did you not get any? Magic to do. Yeah, we didn't have anything in my life.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

I had, well, they sing we got magic to do just for you. We've got miracle plays to play. Uh Miracle Play. Pippin in some senses is a miracle play in itself. Because Miracle Plays uh was a principal kind of drama of European Middle Ages. And a miracle play presents a real or fictitious account of a life, miracles or martyrdom of a saint.

SPEAKER_03 25:23

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

So the genre was developed and evolved during the 10th and 11th century. There you go, we got miracle plays to play. I also love that so we've talked about that ensemble and these bands of players, and they all like have you know, they all pipe in with their own wee lines and stuff, and really cleverly the lines match the characters that they then go on to play.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

You know, so you've got Frust Fastrada, uh, she sings intrigue plots to bring disaster, and she sings about intrigue as she provides the major political intrigue in the play, as you've just talked about. That it's very political. Bertha, she sings humor handed by a master. She provides a lot of humour in her later number in the show, and this lyric shows exactly what to expect from this cheeky and fun character. And Charles, he sings battles of barbarous. I love that word, barbarous and bloody. And Charles deliver uh is delivering this line foreshadowing both Pippin's attempt to take part in a war and Charles' own temporary death at the hands of Pippin.

SPEAKER_03 26:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

Barbarous, great word. Cruel, uncivilized, extremely brittle and like a barbarian then.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

unknown 26:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

Magic to do just for you. We've got foibbles and fables too. Now I know what a fable is, but a foible no?

SPEAKER_03 26:56

Well, I d I just thought it was like an like a fable.

What We Learned From The Lyrics

SPEAKER_00 26:59

Like so a foible is minor weaknesses or incentricities in someone's character. Oh eccentricities. Sorry, I said that wrong. Eccentricities, isn't that how you say it? Eccentricities. If you're eccentric, yes, eccentricities.

SPEAKER_03 27:16

Oh, okay, right. Yes, that makes that line much more sense rather than fables and fables. Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Oh, did she think it was a double fable? We got it here, folks. Our first misheard lyric of the episode. We haven't had a misheard lyric for a while, to be fair.

SPEAKER_03 27:33

We really haven't.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

Well, what did you learn then?

SPEAKER_03 27:35

Um, in no time at all.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:37

It says you could squander away or squester.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 27:41

Like, isn't that a nice word to say? And that just means isolate or hide away. That's squester.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Wester. Don't we all want to squester sometimes? Sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

I think it's whenever we get into this type of weather, isn't it? We're like hibernation mood. I know, I'm awful like fomar.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Yeah. And you also like what's the word like not insulted. What's the opposite of insult? Uh compliment, thank you. I couldn't get the word, I couldn't find the word. It's a Thursday, I'm exhausted. Um, you complimented my jumper, and it's one of my wintry jumpers that I'm now getting myself into. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:18

Yeah. Well, I what I said there was that it was very autumn.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

Autumn autumnal.

SPEAKER_03 28:23

Yeah, I like it.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

But we're coming out of autumn.

SPEAKER_03 28:26

Well, no, we're still autumn technically is still in we're slowly, slowly coming out of it. Slowly coming out.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Listen, our weather, we're coming out of autumn. Oh my gosh, it's it might be weeks early, but we're coming out of it.

SPEAKER_03 28:39

I also love these four lines. Oh, it's time to start living. Time to take a little from this world we're given. Time to take time, because spring will turn to fall in just no time at all.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

No time at all.

SPEAKER_03 28:56

And I think that that is something that a lot of people could live with being reminded of. Yeah. That like sometimes stuff just goes by very fast.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:07

And do it's important to take the time.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:10

You know, appreciate what you're given, appreciate the world that you're in and look after it. Because spring will turn to fall. So funny that like this time last year we were getting really excited for Wicked Part One. We're like, we've got to wait a whole year and look how quickly that year's gone.

SPEAKER_00 29:27

Yeah. I can't believe it's a year. Like, I can't believe that you text like a couple of nights ago going, right, it's out on this date. When do you want to go? And I'm going, but that's like weeks away. Like what, two weeks, fortnight? Yeah. Three weeks. Insane.

SPEAKER_03 29:42

But I just was like, do you know what? That would be a really nice print in your house or something.

SPEAKER_00 29:47

Or a nice little like and we love a we musical theatre quote or prints. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 29:53

I love putting them in. Yeah. Like everyone don't realize.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

But that's the thing. That so that that song that you've just quoted also has such a lovely tune. Like you remember it, and and they all sing it together. It's almost like a finale number, isn't it? You can just imagine them all waving their heads above hands above their head. Um, War of Science.

SPEAKER_03 30:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

Yeah. So I think this is Charles singing all about you know going into battle and that type of thing. And he's given Pippin a bit of advice, isn't he? Yeah. So he sings, now listen to me closely. I'll endeavour to explain what separates a Charlemagne or Charlotte Charlatan from a Charlemagne. So Charlatan, the person who falsely claiming to be or have a special knowledge or skill. A Charlemagne Charlemagne, king who united much of the Western and Central Europe for the first time since the fall of the Roman Empire, becoming the first Holy Roman Emperor and earning the title Father of Europe. Interesting. He also sings, though pompous as Pompeii or Daring as Darius, a simple rule that every good man knows by heart. It's smarter to be lucky. It's smarter to be lucky than it's lucky to be smart.

SPEAKER_03 31:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

That's another one we should get printed on the wall.

SPEAKER_03 31:19

100%. That's a bit like that quote. Oh, I'm gonna mess it up. Like, but it's it's nice, it's nice to be never mind, forgotten. It'll come to you. It'll come to me in the minute. But do you know, like it's another one of those, like you know what? Somebody's probably said that to you before, and you haven't realized that actually you've just quoted a bit of a musical there.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

Yeah, exactly. Now uh Pompeii, I obviously it's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice. See, she always interrupts me. Um but I'm glad you got that up because I would have annoyed you the rest of this evening. Yeah. Um the names that he he quoted there, I didn't know anything about. Now Pompeii, I know as a place, but it's not spelt the same. This is P-O-M-P-E-Y. Ah. So that refers to uh now here here we go with my Roman pronunciations. Gnaeus, Pompeius, Magnus, oh here, I feel like I should be in Gladiator. Known as known in known in English as Pompeii or Pompeii the Great. Yeah. Was a Roman general and statesman who was prominent in the last decades of the Roman Republic and he achieved military and political success, and he was known for being a relatively young general. Did you know anything about him? Have you learned something? I tell you. Darius also refers to Darius the Great or Darius I. Do you know him?

SPEAKER_03 32:48

Well, I know the name, but I don't know what he's doing.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

He was a Parisian king who was known for his vast conquests and the expansion of the Parisian Empire, which would have required daring and strategic ambitious, hence the line that he's singing about. As daring as Darius. I mean, who would have thought I'd have been given a history? That's why you don't have it down, because you you just read these and go, yeah, history. I get it. And I'm like well. I'm like, I thought Pompeii was a place. I visited it on my holiday. Anyway.

SPEAKER_03 33:30

The rest of my learning sort of came from pipping the musical as a whole. And I love that there really is warnings throughout uh the musical. And uh number one if you can pick up on them. But you know, it probably is one of those musicals that it does make you think. Yeah, you know, and I think that's that's what it was meant to do. Be wary of charismatic figures and how often were you told that whenever you were younger? Yeah, you know, just be careful of somebody that's you know promising you the world.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

Yeah, yes, that's very true.

Quotes, History Nuggets And Takeaways

SPEAKER_03 34:05

You know, and really that's that's that's where he he feels like there's something more out there because people are telling him that there's something more out there. I also love this that life is a compromise. And uh a lot of people don't realize that, and they just become very selfish in a lot of decisions that they're making in life. And no matter what you do, you're gonna have to compromise at some point. And there's some people that will go through life and they'll only ever focus on themselves. Yeah, but life is gonna become very hard if you don't understand the compromise. Seeking a perfect, flawless existence is always self-defeating, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

And there's so many people like that that they're always going, No, there has to be better out there, there has to be more, there this isn't enough. And I'm like, Oh my god, will you not just spend your whole life? Because some people I truly believe will never be happy, and it's like you're just gonna spend your whole life like searching for more and more and more.

SPEAKER_03 35:06

And I at some point you just want to go, no, this I'm content with what I've got, or what and it's not about not reaching for the stars, like that that's completely different. It's when people, you know, say this is what I want on the achievement, and then there's they're still not happy in themselves, and it's almost like a par thing or a greed thing or or whatever. But uh, but yeah, if you constantly seek that perfection, like flawless perfection, because sometimes you can have perfection, and it's I mean, you know, it's hard when you're perfect, right? But it that can be self-defeating, and you're you're you're actually just damaging yourself, and then my favorite a bit like my favorite quote from Wizard of Oz, which always reminds me of you, but you have the power to write your own story, so you've always had the power.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

Why does that remind you of me?

SPEAKER_03 35:55

You've always had the power, my dear. You got me a lovely little stuff on the wall, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I always associate that quote with you. Um because you you gave it to me at a time where you needed it. I needed it, so I am like that's Timothy. But yeah, you have the power to write your own story, you know. So there's there's some there's some lovely moments in Pippin. There's some very odd moments too, but they were my main lessons that I learned through the musical.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

Stan Novations then. We all know yours, you told us in the first 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_03 36:29

Do you know what? What I don't hate the overture.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

I'm trying to remember the overture in my yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a good it's a as as Broadway musical overtures go.

SPEAKER_03 36:39

And you know what I'm like you're gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

You don't like an overture and I love an overture. Like we still haven't done that episode where we talk about our top ten overtures.

SPEAKER_03 36:47

You're more of an overture, but I it must have come on shuffle, you know, as we're researching and I was like, it's pretty good because I think the the songs are so yeah humble.

SPEAKER_00 36:56

Yeah, and I what I like about what I like about this the cast recordings or the music of Pippin is it each number is so unique and different from the other. Yeah. It it's almost like a compilation album. Do you know what I mean? Every character's song is so distinctively different from any other character, and most of the song, apart from Pippin, he has a number, yeah, you know, most of the other songs are presented by a different player or a playing a different character in the trip.

SPEAKER_03 37:30

So what I found listening to the Bettina Miller version was that I felt her voice was a really nice like thread.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:39

Almost, but that could have just been her like beautiful voice. But I felt like it kind of should similar, like the narrator in Joseph. Yeah. Just there, not all sometimes just in the background as well.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:53

But I was like, there's just something about Petita's voice in certain musical numbers, even if it was only just one line or whatever. I was like, oh, this is tying this together nicely.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Oh, she was perfect, she plays it perfectly, doesn't she? Yeah. Actually, that that 2013 revival cast recording is one of my standing ovations because I think it's so good uh vocally and dramatically. I get it. Like you've mentioned Pettina Miller. I also think Matthew James Thomas needs a shout out for his Pippin. His voice is so beautiful, and Pippin has beautiful songs like Corner of the Sky with You is the most beautiful love song, Morning Glory and Love Song. They those are four absolutely gorgeous songs. Yeah, love song is. If you're a Pippin, if your cast is Pippin, lucky you, you've got absolutely beautiful songs to sing, and he sings them beautifully, and then he makes me remember something else that I absolutely loved. Do you remember Britannia High?

SPEAKER_03 38:59

Oh my goodness, yes.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

Do you remember so Britannia High was like it came out of nowhere, didn't it? It was a TV show that followed what young performing arts call it college students, and Matthew James Thomas was one of the Britannia High kids.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Oh, right, okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

And Arlene Phillips was involved in that, wasn't she? Was she choreographer? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:26

And the main girl, she went off on actually, she married Elon Musk, but she was in British.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

No way. Yeah. Someone from Britannia High married Elon Musk.

SPEAKER_03 39:34

And was in like Centrinians and things like that. She's she's a good actor, but I can't remember her name off the top of the book. Oh my goodness.

Standout Songs And Cast Recording Praise

SPEAKER_00 39:41

I'm googling that when we finish this episode. But yeah, no, so he was in it, and then he appears on a Broadway cast recording, and I'm like, oh my goodness, he was in Britannia. And he's British. I'm like, he was in Britannia High, that's class. Yeah, so and I also love Morning Glory. I think it's a brilliant act one finale number. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:00

There we go. Like, definitely check Pepper.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

Listen, I mean, listen to it. You don't need to go and see it anytime soon. Give it a listen.

SPEAKER_03 40:08

The story is a wee bit.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

And I love like wee things like they do, like go scoobity do. Like I love all those like they have a few wee, like playful moments. Playful moments.

SPEAKER_03 40:19

Yeah, they do.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

Playful moments, playful characters.

SPEAKER_03 40:22

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:23

Nice music. Well done, Stephen Schwartz. Like he didn't let himself dying when writing Pippins, you know what I mean? No doubt. Having come from Godspell, which was so flippin' awesome. Like I love Godspell, as we know.

SPEAKER_03 40:37

Yeah. We love it.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

Well you should go back and listen to Godspell again, our episode on Godspell.

SPEAKER_03 40:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

It's it was a great not that it was a great episode, but we do believe it was a great episode, but it was a great musical to cover on the pod.

SPEAKER_03 40:52

Because everything we do is Godspell.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

Of course, but we know we have our favourites, and like Godspell's one of ours, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 40:59

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

Um day by day. Sorry. Go.

SPEAKER_03 41:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

Talk.

SPEAKER_03 41:07

Your what would you rather? What would Patty do?

SPEAKER_00 41:09

What would Paddy do? Um Patty? What's who's Patty? Patty. What would Patty do?

SPEAKER_03 41:14

Patty. Work with a diva actor behind the scenes. Or many times handle an unpredicted animal actor.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

Done that too. I've done both. Do you know what? I sometimes think animals are probably easier to manage than unpredictable diva-like nonsense.

SPEAKER_03 41:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

I'm go I'm going with the un unknown animal actor.

SPEAKER_03 41:46

I think so.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

And I'm probably gonna lose loads of like friends. No in the biz.

SPEAKER_03 41:52

No, I think if you had to choose, you would go with animal because I think as you get older, you just can't bother with people's uh dramatics.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

Um egos, no need.

SPEAKER_03 42:03

No need to do that.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

Nobody needs to have an ego where you're all here for the same reason teamwork to present art. You should not be any more important than anybody else in the room.

SPEAKER_03 42:14

No.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

And if you are, you're here for the wrong reasons. There's the door. See you later. Don't let it take you on the way out. Bye. Oh, I was very outspoken there. It's not like my No.

SPEAKER_03 42:25

I think you were you were perfectly fine.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

Well, there we go. That was fun.

SPEAKER_03 42:32

That was that was that was fun. That was because it always is.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

We've got magic to do just for you. We got miracle plays to play. I also like the wee Peter Patter song. Yeah, I mean it has it all.

SPEAKER_03 42:49

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

If you listen to it, just don't go and watch it.

SPEAKER_03 42:51

Yeah, don't go watch it.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

Although I would have loved to see that revival because it was like circus-based and there was lots of like circus performing and like tricks and you know, but hey ho. Yeah. We weren't in Broadway, so we couldn't see it.

SPEAKER_03 43:05

Well, we'll be back next week discussing more musicals, discussing all things.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

I'm looking forward to next week's musical because I do love it.

SPEAKER_03 43:13

You do, you do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

One of the first like memories of a show that was like, no, this is a big show that I had to choreograph.

SPEAKER_03 43:25

Oh, okay. I'm interested. Interested in that. So come back next week, folks.

SPEAKER_00 43:30

And see CSN.

SPEAKER_03 43:32

Yeah, or listen to us in, whatever you want to do. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 43:37

See us in see you next week.

SPEAKER_03 43:40

Bye.

SPEAKER_00 43:40

Bye.