Musical Lyrical Lingo
We're Musical Lyrical Lingo!
Join Tim and Lj who delve deep into the wonderful world of musical theatre and more importantly the lessons they have learned from different musicals.
Join them as they explore some of the greatest musicals ever created, from the classics to the new and exciting shows that continue to teach us something new.
So whether you're a seasoned fan of the stage or a newcomer, this podcast is for you.
So sit back, relax and get ready to immerse yourself in the world of musical theatre.
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Musical Lyrical Lingo
Sunset Boulevard's Rise and Fall
Reuniting after summer hiatus, we dive into the glittering yet troubled world of Sunset Boulevard, Andrew Lloyd Webber's haunting masterpiece about faded glory and Hollywood's darkest corners.
This beloved musical took a staggering two decades to reach the stage, with Lloyd Webber first captivated by Billy Wilder's film noir classic in 1970. The journey from concept to curtain-up was fraught with creative challenges, casting controversies, and financial hurdles that nearly sank the production before opening night. We unpack the fascinating backstage drama—including Patti LuPone's infamous million-dollar lawsuit after being replaced by Glenn Close, and how that settlement supposedly funded "The Andrew Lloyd Webber Memorial Pool" at her Connecticut home.
Beyond the production gossip, we explore the psychological complexity of Norma Desmond, a faded silent film star living in her decaying mansion, trapped by memories of past glory while planning an impossible comeback. Her relationship with struggling screenwriter Joe Gillis forms the heart of this story about Hollywood's cruelty toward those who outlive their usefulness. Lloyd Webber's score—featuring standout numbers like "With One Look" and "As If We Never Said Goodbye"—ranks among his most sophisticated work, perfectly capturing Norma's fragile mental state and the opulence of a bygone era.
We also examine Jamie Lloyd's recent revival starring Nicole Scherzinger, which reimagined the show with cameras and screens to create a more intimate experience for modern audiences. Whether you're familiar with the show or discovering it for the first time, join us as we celebrate this enduring exploration of fame, delusion, and the devastating consequences when the spotlight fades but the performer cannot accept their exit from the stage.
Have you seen any of the Sunset Boulevard productions? Share your thoughts with us—which Norma Desmond interpretation spoke to you most profoundly?
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yeah, get going. Hello and welcome to musical lyrical lingo. We're your hosts, tim and lj.
Speaker 2:Today and every week we will be discussing musicals, but specifically what they taught us oh, it's like a wee reunion I know it's been a long time since I said that I know, because listeners will be thinking what are they on?
Speaker 1:We were listening to them last week. There was an episode out last week wasn't there. No, there wasn't this week, I don't know. So basically, we have had our holidays, but we filmed a few and sprinkled them around.
Speaker 2:No, I think we're going to have to do more at once because we got some people telling us off. I know we got a real backlash, didn't we Folks?
Speaker 1:we deserve a holiday, like every so often, but the way it's worked out, it actually means we haven't seen each other for, hold my hand, so long.
Speaker 1:We haven't seen each other for so long, though Like literally all summer like this is a reunion episode, so they'll probably be sick to death of hearing us, but like this is literally two bezies back together just having a good old catch up. No, you were probably right the first time. I understand I won't be offended, but it's lovely. It's lovely, it is lovely to see you and to be back and to have a wee Chatter, a wee chatter about musicals and all the rest of it. Yeah, are you okay?
Speaker 2:Yeah, all good.
Speaker 1:Good, you had a nice summer. I did. I had a lovely summer and a lovely holiday. Lovely, yeah, back to work this week. Back to the pod.
Speaker 2:Yeah, see, great, that's what you were very looking forward to, wasn't it? Absolutely Very looking forward to it, very looking forward to it.
Speaker 1:Always very looking forward to the pod.
Speaker 2:Oh, you see, this is why I've missed you yeah, yeah, I know, yeah, it's all good.
Speaker 1:Have you any news? No, none, okay, fair enough.
Speaker 2:I don't feel like I do. We had a very luxurious summer, and I mean that as in we had time. This was the first summer where the two of us didn't have a lot of work to do or didn't have places to go. I was marking lots and lots, and lots of stuff can be done whenever the kids are in bed, so we were able to spend a lot of time just like going for walks and going for lunch and just taking it easy, and it was nice actually same.
Speaker 1:I did a wee hand dive at the beginning of the summer, did a wee, worked on a wee production of grace and then after that I went on the holidays and just have been chilling ever since. Yeah, it's all good I know it's been.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I appreciate that not everybody gets moments like that, so it was nice that's true to just take time and, you know, just relax in different ways and then it feels it literally feels like we've just gone crash bang right back into all the craziness that is but life is like that, isn't it?
Speaker 1:like getting everything ready yeah, and next week you'll go. When was the summer, like? How long ago was that like it is? Yeah, that upsets. It does upset me when life does that to you, but anyway, we can't complain. We must enjoy the time we've had. Sorry to our listeners that we have been missing a couple of weeks, but we love you dearly. We're back, but I needed a holiday.
Speaker 2:You did.
Speaker 1:So Theatre News is slightly different because obviously catch up, catch up. So some Theatre News. But I also want to get your opinion on some things that happened over the summer in the world of musical theatre, because you know we haven't had that.
Speaker 2:We haven't even gone for coffee.
Speaker 1:No, but you're having a coffee too. We're having a coffee now and a wee musical theatre catch up. So I'll do the news first of all. Judy Dent and Kenneth Bran. A coffee now and a wee musical theatre catch up. So I'll do the news first of all.
Speaker 1:Judy Dench and Kenneth Branagh are to appear on a one-off TV special. I read this today. I am like super duper excited by this Two of my favourite people. So Sky Arts announced that this one-off special with the working title of Drinks with Dame Judy they should change that to Drinks with the Dame. So Drinks with Dame Judy, which will see Judi Dench welcome her long-time friend, Kenna Branagh, into her country home for intimate conversation about their lives and careers. That's going to be riveting. I hope it's a series. It can't be a one off like could you imagine, and then she could do like loads of different yeah, that would be fun, wouldn't it?
Speaker 1:Judy could do a proper series of these drinks with the dame yeah so that's something to look forward to and that's hot off the press, because I only read that today and I came up on social media and I yelped what did you know that there is a movie, musical film, coming out of the Kiss of the Spider Woman? Yes but have you known this for a while, or was that news to you too recently in the last couple of months?
Speaker 1:Couple of months, okay, because I had heard nothing of it before. That had you, no. And then there's a trailer, like it's made, starring Jennifer Lopez.
Speaker 2:And that's what I've been hearing is that this was going to win her awards.
Speaker 1:I would say from the trailer alone, she like signs and looks amazing, like I'm really excited. Shall we do a cinema trip to see that? I have never seen that musical, nor really I don't think I've listened to it from start to finish, so it definitely like interests me. Interestingly, there's also a stage revival of it, because it's a much-loved but rarely staged musical. So the film's coming out in October and then it's going to go on a short theatrical stage tour April, may, june next year, starring Anna Jane Casey. She is going to be the Spider Woman and she's currently in Belfast working with our lovely friends Ali and Jennifer Rennie on Follies, which opens at the beginning of September. It's very exciting. So that's my theatre news. Now I want to get the goss and I want to get the goss and I want to get your, your opinions okay number one on my my agenda okay.
Speaker 1:I'm like my friend, one of my friends like crosses her fingers when she's got things to remember okay so the first thing is the burlesque controversy. Yeah, thoughts.
Speaker 2:I mean, there was a lot of controversy then it disappeared, it died away and then everything just went everybody shut up.
Speaker 1:We did talk about the controversy on the pod, didn't we?
Speaker 2:we sort of talked about, yes, how you were, you know, concerned.
Speaker 1:I would say I just couldn't understand how the whole creative team had changed for this West End production compared to was it Manchester? That it was in the first time. And I was like how is that a thing? How is the musical which? Yeah, how was it like just transferring, but completely new show, completely new team.
Speaker 1:And then there was all the equity getting involved with like people's behaviour and the lack of payment for certain things. And then there was loads of reports of like costumes not finished and all the rest of it. But then it opened to good reviews and the pictures looked good and all the rest of it did good reviews and the the pictures look good and all the rest of it and it just seemed a bit of an over. It seemed like an overkill on I don't want to say overreaction, because obviously we get our um, our information, the same places that everybody else gets their information. So we don't really know. But I just wondered. And then didn't Todrick Hall then, who is choreographing and directing and starring and everything else he came on just to basically call out people for the mean comments and the online bullying and know the full story, and he seemed to be being.
Speaker 1:a lot of this controversy was being thrown onto him yes, he was being thrown shade, but actually he's kind of. He was kind of going, not me, yeah, maybe, yeah something else or someone else or other people there is a show.
Speaker 2:Because I stepped up and went okay, I'll do it it just shows you that there's always different sides to the story that's it, and will we ever know?
Speaker 1:I'm sure we will.
Speaker 2:Christine, I'll put it in our next album you see, I thought that do you know, as life goes on, you can kind of read between the lines, and usually if a star like that attends a show or a performance or anything and they didn't love it, it's just kind of they attended it and that was it. You just don't hear anything else yeah well, it was still all over her socials and she was actively dancing and clapping and then she did like insta videos, yeah, so I was like if she didn't want to be associated with it, she wouldn't have yeah she would have the power to just go.
Speaker 2:We're just shutting that down.
Speaker 1:But have you ever seen anybody walk into the auditorium the way she did? I've loved it. I know I was like I wish I could be Christina, like I wish I could do that Me too. I was like I wish I could wear that book. It was quite. It was quite the video.
Speaker 2:It was, it was.
Speaker 1:On to even more fabulousness. And you're talking about stars and star power. Can we talk about Jesus Christ Superstar at the Hollywood Bowl?
Speaker 2:Go for it.
Speaker 1:Have you watched like videos.
Speaker 2:Well, just little clips that were on TikTok.
Speaker 1:Well, you see, I was on holiday when this all came out, so I didn't get. I didn't watch any of them, but if you look at my saved videos on Instagram, there's at least 35 on Jesus Christ Superstore. I thought it was unbelievable. I thought Cynthia Erivo's Gethsemane you're going to break my heart, are you? I'm not going to break your heart. You've got to look on your face like I'm just going to let them wax lyrical for the next 40 minutes about how fabulous they all were, and then I'm going to say something that will really make them upset. I thought vocally. I was like wow they were all amazing, adam Lambert.
Speaker 1:Cynthia Erivo I just thought it was brilliant. Go Like, wow, they were all amazing. Adam Lambert, yeah, cynthia Erivo.
Speaker 2:I just thought it was brilliant Go. I thought I loved Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1:So did I.
Speaker 2:I adore Jesus Christ. I also think that people don't always understand that Jesus Christ was similar to God's spell in the aspect that it's always meant to be like a touring actors putting on a production. These people are not necessarily meant to be jesus judas yeah um, I thought that everybody, and it was amazing. I thought adam lambert is just not credited enough for his voice. Yeah, and for me, tim minton is that right. Yeah, I do think he's a great judas and I do think that adam was like on part with him so I was like, absolutely, you could go and play that, you could.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that role um cynthia I thought was great, but for me I just didn't love gethsemane no, I did I like I find it much more impressive whenever it is a man hitting those okay I knew that she was going to be able to hit them, and I wasn't yeah, but it didn't it didn't give me the chills.
Speaker 1:Oh no, it gave me the chills, um, and a wee tear at the end, um I. But then I was like like, wouldn't you love to have a cast recording of that version, as in the whole show I'm not just talking about her guess, emily, like why come on Andrew Lloyd Webber, please? Why would you not have just taken the sound mix from the sound desk and released it as an album?
Speaker 2:No, I thought everybody were great, like I thought Milo was great as well. I think he has vibes from like the zombie films.
Speaker 1:He did, Peter didn't he.
Speaker 2:Yes, I thought it was a very good performance.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I just I'm like, I was like I love that power and that emotion that Gethsemane has, and for me it just didn't reach that height that I usually get.
Speaker 1:Okay, lauren, you're going to see Wicked for Good on your own, because I'm not going with you, I am not, I'm not going with you after that comment. Don't you talk to my Cynthia like that, but it was yes, no, no, she was great, very special, she was amazing, but it was yes, no, no.
Speaker 2:She was great, very special, she was amazing and the performance was fantastic.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:For me. I just think.
Speaker 1:Give us a cast recording. Okay Shall we move on then to what we're doing.
Speaker 2:What are we doing?
Speaker 1:Well, we did name check Andrew Lloyd Webber there because he was in attendance at the Hollywood Bowl.
Speaker 2:Actually loads of people were in attendance.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the original Jesus was there. Isn't that right, terry?
Speaker 2:Yes, there were loads of people over there and said it was amazing, and I know that there were some sound issues because that's why they had to hold hand mics.
Speaker 1:But did you see that video of her waiting?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'll show you after.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So I saw a video where she, cool as a cucumber, just waited and looked around and then, when she got the handheld, she tapped her the top of her head to the md to go from the top as in, from the top of the number. I was like the woman is just sophistication Like unbelievable.
Speaker 1:Anyway, we're doing an Andrew Lloyd Webber. We are. What, andrew Lloyd Webber, are we doing? Well, we're doing. I didn't realise. I thought this was one of his earliest. Oh, did you? Yeah, I thought it came quite early in his repertoire, but it's actually not. It's Sunset Boulevard. We kind of felt now that the hype we don't want it to die away too quickly because obviously we've had the west end revival and then we had the broadway revival and they're all. They're all closed now, aren't they all gone? It's off broadway and all the rest. But so, nicole, sure singer will be having a well-deserved lie down and so will Tom Francis.
Speaker 1:And so will Tom Francis. Yeah, so we thought we'd do a wee Sunset Boulevard. How do you feel about this? The same way as Cynthia's Gethsemane, I really like Sunset Boulevard. Give her a couple of years. Cynthia could do Mean Island. Norma Desmond, she could do it now. She could do it now. Yeah, because they could do.
Speaker 2:Mean Island.
Speaker 1:Norma Desmond. She could do it now. She could do it now. Yeah, because people think Norma Desmond is supposed to be an old woman and that's incorrect. Leave Nicole Scherzinger alone. She's not too young to play the role. But we'll probably get on to that later. So an Andrew Lloyd Webber musical, sunset Boulevard, is based on the American filmmaker Billy Wilder's 1950 Academy Award winning film. That's what I learned first. I didn't realise it was a film and it won an Academy Award. Yeah, music by Andrew Lloyd Webber, lyrics and libretto by Dawn Black and Christopher Hampton. Yeah. The plot follows Norma Desmond, a faded star of the silent screen era, living in her decaying mansion on Sunset Boulevard. In 1949, los Angeles, when young screenwriter Joe Gillis accidentally crosses her path, sees an opportunity to make her return to the big screen, with romance and tragedy to follow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's another one of the musicals where you know what is happening from the beginning, so there shouldn't be any spoilers and obviously, with the new revival, pretty much everybody's seen it. So hopefully, if you've never seen Sunset Boulevard, you don't know what it's about and you don't want any spoilers. Stop listening now. There's a lot of tragedy in Sunset Boulevard. Yeah, yes, dora Desmond is living on her memories in this decaying mansion and she's a psychopath. Och.
Speaker 1:She's misunderstood.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh, and it has fatal consequences for.
Speaker 1:Joe, yeah, Coming to fruition even as a show was a flippin'. It's almost as long as Sunset Boulevard itself.
Speaker 2:Oh, my goodness, this was one of the big things that I'd learned. So Andrew Lloyd Webber wanted to do this musical from the 70s. But, he didn't. It was like 93 before it actually was on the Wests. Yeah, but he didn't. It was like 93 before it actually was like on the West End. So it wasn't developed until the early 1990s as the Sunset Boulevard that we know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I think it like a lot of musicals went through a couple of transitions.
Speaker 1:Well, it had rattled on from early 1950s.
Speaker 2:Well, this was the thing as well, and before Andrew Lloyd Webber there was plenty of people, carl. Prince and Stephen Sautern.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, like the American actress Gloria Swanson, the original star of the film had spent five years working on a stage musical version with the American screenwriter Richard Stapley and American composer lyricist Dixon Hughes. They first were calling it starring Norma Desmond, and then they changed the name to Boulevard. However, the efforts lapsed in 1957 at the request of Paramount Studio. They were like don't touch it, do not tarnish our Academy Award winning film. Then, in the 1960s, good old Stephen Sondheim threw his hat in the ring and outlined his stage adaptation until he had a chance encounter with the film's director, billy Wilder, at a cocktail party of all places.
Speaker 2:I loved it and because Sondheim had the most like the first scene, like it wasn't like he just had this idea A lot of work was going into it. And then, like you said, cocktail party, billy Wilder's there and he says to him again don't, you can't write a musical about sunset boulevard. Um, it has to be an opera. Yeah, after all it's about a dethroned queen.
Speaker 1:yeah, like, and that was it sometime, just went okay fair enough um, moved yeah and then, as you say, andrew lloyd weber had seen the original film in 1970 71 and had almost immediately started working on the title song. So in 1976, after Harold Prince approached him to make it into a musical, andrew Lloyd Webber quickly responded, writing an idea for the moment that Norman Desmond returns to Paramount Studios and that's probably one of the most iconic scenes and numbers in.
Speaker 2:Musical history.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in musical history, yeah. Although there were further discussions with the British writer, christopher Hampton, they didn't come to anything again and the project was put on hold. Andrew Lloyd Webber didn't hang around. He then went on to have his greatest triumph. With what show did he have his greatest triumph with after Shelvin? Sunset Phantom.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, sorry, Phantom, yeah.
Speaker 1:So he went and wrote Phantom had massive success with Phantom and then respectfully had less success with Aspects of Love, but it was still, you know, it was still received well. But interestingly, during the early planning stages of Phantom, andrew Lloyd Webber had invited Hampton to lunch.
Speaker 2:Right, okay.
Speaker 1:And he had asked him to write the lyrics for Phantom. Hampton laughed, saying that it was a terrible idea to make a musical of the Gaston Leroux's gothic novel Phantom right. It's funny how things come around again. It's like spaghetti. Hampton then suggested but what about doing a Sunset Boulevard? Only to learn that Andrew Lloyd Webber had already purchased the rights. So in fact, years earlier Andrew Lloyd Webber had asked lyricist Dawn Black to set two melodies intended for the possible Sunset musical. But do you know what one of those melodies actually ended up becoming? It was named One Star Right, but it actually ended up becoming memory in Cats.
Speaker 1:Oh and then there was controversy over that as well as we learnt. So listen, Fast forward to 1989. After his successes with Phantom, he finally turned his attentions back to Sunset and he already had his enthusiastic collaborators chomping at the bit and eager to get started because they'd hung around. Back to Sunset, and he already had his enthusiastic collaborators chomping at the bit and eager to get started because they'd hung around for long enough and he was sort of doing aspects of Love and Sunset Boulevard at the same time in the workshops because Michael Ball was involved in some of the original Sunset Boulevard workshops.
Speaker 1:It was a strategic masterstroke, though, because Andrew Lloyd Webber had persuaded Don Black and Christopher Hampton to work together, and they complemented each other perfectly because they said that, black supplied the emotion and poetry as well as the years of experience, and Hampton, as playwright, brought the show its satirical bite and pace of a thriller.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and.
Speaker 1:Sunset Boulevard does have that Well. It's obviously from the movie, but even as a musical there's a real thriller aspect to it.
Speaker 2:It's very pitch cocky yeah that suspense? Yeah, because you can. Well, we know from the beginning that something happens, but we are not sure how. And then there's always that wonder, like, and realization, like why, and is there a motive behind it, and all of this stuff. So, yeah, that suspension is definitely carried throughout the whole musical.
Speaker 1:So Sunset actually had its first performance then in 1992 at Andrew Lloyd Webber's Sidmonton Festival. I think we've talked about that festival before, so any of our listeners that can't remember, because I'm not so sure it was this year. We talked about it maybe in previous years. Uh, the sidman festival uh is held in a small chapel in andrew lloyd weber's garden and was used back in the day to perform small scale recitals to an audience of family, friends and theater acquaintances to try out new material. So this initial venue may have been small but the stars certainly weren't small to take on the role of Norma Desmond and the first established American actor and singer to take on this role was Patti LuPone, who already at that time was known for specialising in live musical theatre. That show was generally well received and predictably, a West End run followed.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So world premiere was on the 12th of July 1993 in the Adelphi and then it only took well, not even a year because I had tryouts in la first um um, but then it ended up in broadway in november of 94. I'm sure we will go on and mention the difference between west end and broadway, because this was enough. I knew there was controversy around yeah but I actually thought it was the other way around. I thought that it was Glenn Close opened it in West End and Patti. Lapoo opened it in Broadway.
Speaker 1:No. So the West End production, which was directed by Trevor Nunn and choreographed by Bob Avian, you know. So Patti created the role in that London premiere and she was then followed by Glenn Close who opened it in LA. Some other big names that followed were Elaine Page, Petulia Clark, Betty Buckley, Rita Moreno. But, as you said, there was a lot of controversy and with these ladies came a lot of legal action and big payouts.
Speaker 2:Well, fair play to them, 100%. The thing was the production opened, as I said, in 1993 and Patti LuPone had a contract that she was going to transfer to.
Speaker 1:Broadway, broadway.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so there was the performance in LA and I think it was something ridiculous. Like five days before LA they said nope, you no longer have the role, it's Glenn Close.
Speaker 1:She's like no, but I have a contract. Yeah, so Glenn Close had opened it already in LA. So then, for whatever reason, they overlooked Paddy in the end and pulled Glenn Close out of the LA production and put her into opening in Broadway. So obviously Paddy sued their asses for breach of contract. She apparently used the money. Now I don't know how accurate this is, but apparently she used the money to add a swimming pool to her Connecticut home, which she named the Andrew Lloyd Webber Memorial Pool. Yeah, I really hope, that's true.
Speaker 2:She got a settlement of a million. Yes, she did, and Faye Dunaway did the same thing.
Speaker 1:Exactly that, because she then replaced Glenn Close when they took Glenn out of LA Yep. But they mustn't have liked her because a very creative team kind of withdrew her from the show and, I think, withdrew the show. I don't know if it even went on. Now she gave an angry press conference and demanded a financial settlement, which was also widely reported around a million dollars.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean fair play to them. I think this is why, like Sunset Boulevard was never a successfully profitable musical because of these losses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the show was economically in trouble before it even opened. Well, there's grand sets.
Speaker 2:You know, the mansion is a big part of the story because it kind of represents Norma's mind too, and so there's a massive car sometimes and some productions too. It's just big. The producers never got their investment back.
Speaker 1:And, to make it worse, at that time Andrew Lloyd Webber had relatively little control over his really useful company, that's right. So it budgeted the production to break even when London's Adelphi Theatre was at 85% full. So they were saying the theatre had to be 85% full to break even. Andrew Lloyd Webber later stated that this was it was crazy. You should budget at 85% being the maximum likely audience capacity, not your break even point. So listen, it only ran for two years, yeah, but both Andrew Lloyd Webber and Don Black are adamant that with better management it would have run for longer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is interesting. The original production was nominated for 11 Tony Awards and won seven in Best Musical and then the 2023 version.
Speaker 2:Jimmy Lloyd's version was nominated for 11 Olivier's and won 7, including Best Musical Revival, and then in 2024 had 7 Tony's and won 3. So there always seems to be a similar pattern with Sunset Boulevard, not just in the lawsuits and then with the Tony's, but also where people think that it should last longer, because the Savoy production was always meant to be a limited run, but Broadway was meant to last longer and didn't it close?
Speaker 2:I think it closed a lot earlier than what they even anticipated, because we know that there's a problem with Broadway at the moment. We know it's not the end shows the length of time but close to like the 20th of July there, which I think I read somewhere or listened to somewhere where it said that is at least five months sooner than what they thought worst case scenario would be.
Speaker 1:Right. I wonder, why then I?
Speaker 2:don't know, I don't know what's wrong with Broadway at the moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know. I mean we should probably say, you know, mention. You know, glenn Close won a Tony for her Norma Desmond. Nicole Scherzinger won an Olivier and a Tony, you know. So it's a musical that has won a lot of awards, yeah absolutely and Glenn Close is definitely, even though Patti LuPone originated it.
Speaker 2:if you ask anybody about Sounds Like Boulevard, it's probably Glenn Close that they are going to mention because she did come back, for was it the National Opera 2016, I think concert version.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:So she is what's that word synonymous that's very clear.
Speaker 1:Yes, synonymous. And for years and years and years and years, there had been chat of a film, you know, a remake of a film, and I think I read somewhere that as late as 2014, going Close was still talking about it was in in the you know right okay, it was. It was still a possibility and there was still yeah, you know that that has almost like fast forward to now.
Speaker 1:There's there's chat of it again. Yeah, you know it would make, and it would make a good remake of a music, movie, musical, and I could see someone like nicole scherzinger doing it on film. I'm sure there's plenty of others that you know could throw, throw their name in the ring, but it would be one, you know, after wicked like it would be good to see. You know somebody like what's the? The director who did yeah you know him yeah taking.
Speaker 1:You know, I think he he is. He is a safe a safe person. Yeah, for the future of movie adaptations and musicals, wouldn't it?
Speaker 2:So what? What for the future of movie adaptations and musicals, wouldn't it so what's the plot? What is the plot really of Sunset Boulevard do? You find do you find that Sunset Boulevard may be also a law?
Speaker 1:I think the so I have seen Sunset Boulevard and I I wasn't a massive fan of it. And I think I wasn't a massive fan of it because there are big chunks of it which are him and her.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Do you know what I mean, and it kind of felt long, it kind of felt slow. But then I did see a youth production of it and they, obviously, because there was a lot more in the cast, they had to, you know, be creative and like they had. So in the youth production they had, you know, like ghosts of silent movies. So there was like Ghost of charlie chaplin and ghosts of this, you know, lots of different movie stars that were in the mansion and they which gave you more to see and there was more goings on and they're more. Do you know what I mean? So when I saw that production it didn't feel as long, or as, do you know what I mean. I also think the first time I saw it I was young and I didn't get it, for example, I totally missed at the beginning, was kind of telling us what happens at the end right whereas when I saw the youth production version, I was, you know, but I was also a lot older and I could understand the story and the complexities and the layers.
Speaker 1:Like you know, it is psychologically. There's a lot going on. Do you know what I mean? But I can get why. You would ask is it long? Yeah, yeah because it can be long.
Speaker 2:I think because as well. Yes, ultimately it's Joe and Norma. And then you've got Max. You know her butler, which is what we think he is at the beginning, and then actually, oh, he's a writer and he meets Betty, and then let's go to lunch and then he's writing a screenplay with her and falling in love with her and Betty's falling in love with him, but actually Betty's going to marry somebody else but Norma's captured him and kept him. Then you're like there's so much going on. And then you're like I feel like the last couple of songs. You're like, oh, it's all over.
Speaker 1:Oh really, no, I don't feel like that. I feel as a story arch it's long to get to the end. And it is a story arch. It's long to get to the end and it is a lot like musically. It's long like even the cast recordings are long. But a friend of mine was lucky enough to see the Savoy one and she said it's a long show but it didn't feel it. You didn't see it go in.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what I was going to say, because Jamie Lloyd used obviously it's still set in like the 40s, um, but it's modern clothes as such, but there was also cameras on stage and a lot of screens, yeah, but apparently a lot of this, the the scenes where it maybe was like betty and joe norma was in the background, or if it was joe and norma, max was in the background. So okay maybe a bit like what you're saying yeah the um youth production.
Speaker 2:There was more to watch and see and the close-ups of people's eyes and understanding our emotion whenever that that element is happening yeah, yeah so yeah, I don't know if I explained that well enough, where I'm just saying I feel like sometimes, like with sunset billvard, it takes a wee while to get to and it's maybe that suspense I don't like feeling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Is this one of your fives that make you feel uneasy? No, it's not. That's so weird, because it makes me feel uneasy, like she has me on the edge of my seat, interesting, I know it is strange.
Speaker 2:But then I wonder, is that in the back of my mind? Yeah, maybe yeah, is that why I feel like it's long, because I am feeling that suspense, yeah, anyway shall we move on to what?
Speaker 1:what we've learned, then? Our musical lyrical lingos. It feels like so long. Since we've talked about our musical lyrical lingo, well, the first thing I learned was a wee bit more about the, the silent movies, um, so also known as the silent film, or motion pictures without synchronized recorded sound or dialogue. Um, they rely on visual storytelling through actions, expressions and intertitles to convey the narrative, and I think that was one of the. Also, I remember when I was younger, like seeing like a video of a. I think that sorry, I'm like jumping my. My thoughts are just. I think I saw was there like an Andrew Lloyd Webber birthday or something, and they did a VHS of it like concert.
Speaker 2:And Glenn comes on and Glenn Close. The.
Speaker 1:Turbans. Yeah, she did a Sunset Boulevard number and I was like why is she overacting, like I was actually going, why is she doing that? Like that's a lot, that's very exaggerated and extreme, but that was exactly the point for these, like the silent movie era the silent era existed from the mid 1890s to the late 1920s. A pianist or theatre organist, or sometimes an orchestra, would play music to accompany the films. Some of the greatest icons of the silent cinema included Janet Gaynor, marion Davies, louise Brooks and the films. Some of the greatest icons of the silent cinema included Janet Gaynor, marion Davies, louise Brooks and Greta Garbo. Now, I've heard of Greta Garbo before Some male stars. Rudolf Valentino I want to be called Rudolf Valentino. It sounds like a great name. These are all brilliant names, do you? Yeah, that's our call. Yeah, it sounds like a great name. These are all brilliant names. Douglas Fairbanks, mm-hmm. Great name. Lon Chaney, who was actually the Phantom in the Phantom of the Opera, because the Phantom of the Opera was also a silent movie. Buster Keaton yeah, great name, buster Keaton. Buster Keaton yes, I just missed the end off there. And, of course, charlie chaplin yeah, so, um, interestingly and we mentioned it at the beginning, um, because people had given a bit of crap to nicole scherzinger about being too young and all the rest of it.
Speaker 1:The average age of the biggest female stars during this silent, uh film era were generally in their early to mid-20s. Yeah, many achieved fame and popularity, often in late teens, and you know the lyrics refer to that quite often. I can't remember, is it Jo? Maybe, says she. No, it's one of the kids at the studio. When she returns they're like she must be 100 years old. You should and somebody replies, one of the older members of the studio say you should have seen her when she was 17. And Max mentions in his song how he first met her when she was merely a child, 16 years old.
Speaker 1:The silent movie era gradually came to an end with the introduction of the talkies or spoken talking pictures and again, we know a bit about that from Singing in the Rain, exactly Because that's what's in that. Yeah, but by the early 1930s the transition to sound was largely completed, marking the end of the silent film era. Some wonderful quotes from norma desmond relating to the silent films. She said we didn't need dialogue, we had faces. And my favourite is I am big, it's the pictures that got smaller. Yeah, so it's an interesting period of cinematic history that I didn't know a huge amount about. If I'm being completely honest with you, the thought of sitting down to a silent film destroys my happiness. I need more. I need more. I need more.
Speaker 2:You need yeah. As I said, over-exaggerations and gestures aren't my favourite thing, which is really funny, because that's how you need to perform when you're on the stage, because you need to be able to sit with a part of the person at the back to see you. Obviously, if you're TV acting, it needs to be reined in so it's a lot smaller.
Speaker 1:But on stage it's not to the silent movie. Stage of exaggeration. What about you? What did you?
Speaker 2:learn. Well, same I kind of just learned. I didn't realise all of the background about Sunset Boulevard, but also I didn't know that several of the tunes were borrowed from Andrew Lloyd Webber's 1986 mini musical called Cricket.
Speaker 1:I have never heard of that musical. Let's do an episode on cricket sometime.
Speaker 2:I don't know what it's about, but he did it with Tim Rice.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:And With One Look was composed for Andrew Lloyd Webber's musical about Puccini. The Italian composer there you go. So he took that and then did it.
Speaker 1:But Andrew Lloyd Webber steals from himself a lot in loads of different musicals.
Speaker 2:Only as I got older can I start to recognize that. It definitely felt like there was. You can tell it's an Andrew Lloyd Webber, but there's definitely elements in like Jesus Christ Superstar, or there's Joseph, or there's Jesus Christ Superstar in Evita. There's some Sunset stuff. In Sunset there's some Love Never Dies, you know.
Speaker 1:And I, when I listened to Sunset again recently, having just done Whistle Down the Wind a number of weeks ago, like there's bits of Whistle Down the Wind a number of weeks ago, like there's bits of.
Speaker 2:Whistle Down the.
Speaker 1:Wind that clearly were taken or changed slightly from Sunset Boulevard.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's quite, he's got his wee motif and he likes using the same kind of motifs throughout like you know, even in Sunset there's the same motif you'll hear again and again and again, which I think that's not me being critical, that doesn't annoy me.
Speaker 2:The very first thing that Sunset Boulevard taught me was how to spell the word boulevard. I only knew how to spell boulevard because of the musical.
Speaker 1:There you go, and boulevard's a hard word to spell.
Speaker 2:It's a hard word.
Speaker 1:Because it doesn't sound how it looks. No If you try signing it out, you're snickered like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank goodness for musical theatre. See In the overture, or guess it was 5am, the very first song where we learn everything.
Speaker 1:But I love an overture.
Speaker 2:I know you do. It says I had a contract down at Fox but I'd fallen foul of Daryl. So Daryl, I was like who's Daryl? He was Daryl F Sanuk and he founded 20th Century Pictures. But he then bought Fox and he changed the name to 20th Century Fox, as we know it is today.
Speaker 1:There you go. Actually, this is a lot in Sunset.
Speaker 2:Boulevard, 20th Century Fox. As we know, it is today. There you go, so yeah, so actually this is a lot in Sunset Boulevard.
Speaker 1:There's mention of people from that era yeah, one of the people they mention often and is in in the show, cecil B DeMille yeah and he was from a close up.
Speaker 2:Mr.
Speaker 1:DeMille? Yeah, he was. He was a founder of the Hollywood motion picture industry, one of the most commercially successful producers and directors of his time and one of the most influential filmmakers in history. Between 1914 to 1956, he made 70 feature films. All but seven were profitable. Like that's some record. What I thought was really interesting, Cecil B DeMille played himself in the original 1950 film Noir Classic of Sunset Boulevard.
Speaker 2:I did not know that.
Speaker 1:Isn't that really cool.
Speaker 2:In every movie there's a circus.
Speaker 1:It says can't we?
Speaker 2:discuss this Schwab's. That is cool. Yeah, In every movie there's a circus.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:It says can't we discuss this? Schwab's?
Speaker 1:Schwab's, I had this too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Schwab's is fine, you can find Schwab's, or you could find Schwab's that is very hard to say At 824 SB, which is Sudsett Boulevard, which was a popular hangout for the Hollywood stars in the 30s to the 50s, and it's a chemist, but not a chemist how we would know it because, back then, a chemist sold you medicine, but also sold you soda and had like an eating and a dining area.
Speaker 2:So this is where all the Hollywood like up and comers would hang out, and it is featured in the film in black it's actually used a bit more frequently in the film because uh, joe says after that I drove down to headquarters.
Speaker 1:That's the uh, the way a lot of us think about squabs drugstore, kind of a combination office, coffee clutch and waiting room, waiting, waiting for the gravy train. I also, when I read that quote, was like gravy train, what's that? So did you? Do you know what a gravy train is?
Speaker 1:I just knew that it's like a work train no, it refers to a situation oh yeah, so it refers to a situation in which someone can make a lot of money from very little effort. Ah, okay, okay, there you go. We don't have drugstores like that here now. No, well, if we do, we're there. But listen, some of the stuff you can get over the counter in the chemist or in a pharmacy in America. I'll never forget. I've told you this story, haven't I? Of us coming home from America and my younger brother had the cold, so we bought a grape-flavoured cough medicine for coming home.
Speaker 1:Right, he was wired to the moon on that plane home, honest to God, absolutely wired. I was sleeping at one point and at one point I opened my eyes to see my brother, nose to nose with me, just staring in my face like he was completely wired from the grape flavoured cough syrup.
Speaker 2:I don't understand how their pharmacies work, because things like that you can buy over the counter, because when Americans get a cold as well, they take something and then they're fine or get the flu While we are like let's just suffer it Do you know what? I mean we're out for like days or whatever. But do you know what you can't buy over the counter? Cold sore cream. You've got to get a prescription for that.
Speaker 1:Seriously when they sell melatonin and gummy bears?
Speaker 2:So strange.
Speaker 1:Oh, it is interesting, isn't it though?
Speaker 2:In Surrender there is a couple of people mentioned and, like he had said earlier, so there's the Fairbanks, the Gilberts and the Valentinos, and they were the most popular and beloved romantic stars of the silent film.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then we have I can't, i'm'm not gonna be able to say this right salome salome, salome. Thank you um a couple of things I love salome yeah um well, there's a mention of a gorgon, so do you know what a gorgon was?
Speaker 1:no, yeah. So joe sings. He says, um, it sure was a real cheery setup. So he's talking about the mansion, the wind wheezing through the organ, max shuffling around, a dead ape dumped on the shelf and her staring like a gorgon. So what's a gorgon?
Speaker 2:A gorgon is a creature from Greek mythology whose stare returned anyone to stone, so a bit like Medusa.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And they say that Norma's stare is similar to that of a Gorgon, because they have to understand that the mansion is like dilapidated and there's so much going on and that's kind of like her mind too. And she doesn't really know where she is, because she still believes that she's this big, amazing star. So, as she's staring she's this big, amazing star, so as she's staring, she's probably staring through him rather than actually staring at him.
Speaker 1:But also when she was on the screen or on the stage. It would have been extremely, you know, intense, you know her actions and facial expressions, as I said, would have been over exaggerated, an old habit from the days as a silent film star as well, you know so this, say it again Salome.
Speaker 2:Salome is this screenplay that Norma Desmond has, and she wants Joe to help her write, and she feels like this is going to be her comeback.
Speaker 1:Back yeah.
Speaker 2:So she sort of employs him and entraps him and keeps him in this mansion to write this, but actually I didn't know that there was so many versions yeah, of salome, yeah yeah, so I've seen the very famous painting that is based on john the baptist's head, you know, and that's from Oscar Wilde's play.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So she says have you got to the scene where she asks for his head? If she can't have him living, she'll take him dead.
Speaker 2:And again, it's a massive insight or foresight into what happens at the end. But yeah, in Oscar Wilde's version she falls in love with John the Baptist and when he dismisses her and says that he's not in love with her, she then asks for his head. And she was a biblical, apparently the daughter of Herod right and danced before Herod. She's also said to be the wife of Sebede and the mother of James and John. But also that word is derived from the Hebrew word shalom.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and shalom, with the Hebrew origin, means peace. Yes, so you're talking about this character who will have somebody's head on a plate, and it actually means peace.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they're quite strange. Ironic Words are odd. Yeah, have, they're quite strange.
Speaker 1:Ironic Words are odd.
Speaker 2:Yeah, have you got anything else in that?
Speaker 1:No, I Do. I have on Salome. No, I just had about Salome. And then, as you said, gorgon, yeah, can we talk about the title song? Well, yeah, it is the title song, isn't it? Sunset Boulevard, twisted Boulevard? Can we talk about the title song? Well, yeah, it is the title song, isn't it? Sunset Boulevard, twisted Boulevard? I'm not there yet. Well, you see, I went there first because it just went to the title song.
Speaker 2:And when does the title song happen in the?
Speaker 1:The beginning of Act Two.
Speaker 2:The beginning of Act Two and I love how people are like oh, when the show opens, Sunset Boulevard, it when the show opens Sunset.
Speaker 1:Boulevard. I'm like it doesn't when Sunset.
Speaker 2:Boulevard. Act two opens Sunset Boulevard.
Speaker 1:I just want to talk about Sunset Boulevard because I want to sing this bit. Sure, I came out here to make my name, wanted my pool, my dose of fame, one of my parking space at Warner's. But after a year, a one room hell. A Murphy bed, a rancid smell, wallpaper peeling at the corners, a Murphy's bed. A Murphy bed is? It comes down from the wall so it's like a fold out bed. Yeah, did not know that's what a Murphy's bed is.
Speaker 2:Well, it was on the go that I then asked the question when I was younger what is a Murphy's bed?
Speaker 1:There you go, and it's a wee fold-out bed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you'll see them like sometimes in hotel rooms as well.
Speaker 1:Really clever, Like they're funky and then it just comes out.
Speaker 2:But I would probably say I'd just get lazy and it would just be out the whole time.
Speaker 1:All the time. Yeah, you wouldn't pack it back into the wall. Yes, you'd just be like, ah, I'll just sleep on it. I'd probably be the same. Jo also sings and, if I'm honest, I like the lady. I can't help being touched by her folly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so what did you think that meant folly?
Speaker 1:Folly as in fall the roll and fiddle-de-dee Folly like bit of fun. Oh, okay, but I was completely wrong, wasn't I?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's a bit of a double entendre in this lyric, to be honest, because not only is a folly a synonym for foolishness and lunacy.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, that's kind of what I thought it was like. And Norma is mental she does have mental health in this show she is a fool. Fool, but not like a fool, as in makes him laugh.
Speaker 1:Yes, no, I mean, I was just stupid. It's like that instability and mania that Norma has. But double entendre, folly is also a costly ornamental building which lacks practical purpose. Oh yeah, and Joe only meets Norma by stumbling upon the mansion in sunset boulevard that he considered antique and absurd. Uh, almost abandoned in many ways, but complete with a dried up pool, doors lacking their knobs, a bowling alley, which I love that line about the alley in the cellar, isn't it?
Speaker 2:um, and even a dead monkey in the garden, I know because that's what norma thinks, that he's there to, like, bury the monkey.
Speaker 1:So there you go. So a synonym for foolishness or lunacy, and is also a costly ornamental building which lacks practical practical purpose.
Speaker 2:lyricists know exactly what they're doing, so clever. So clever. What a great song.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love also that line at the end just like you will end up in the ocean, and you mentioned it in one of your other musical lyrical lingos. It's another like spoiler alert or a line that foreshadows or recalls because, as we know, the entire show is a splashback that we learn about at the beginning of the show just basically foreshadowing that Joe will end up dead in Norma Desmond's pool. Spoiler alert, spoiler, listen. You can't be a fan of musical theatre and not have been on the socials and seen the poor fella in his boxers covered in blood. It's not going to end well.
Speaker 2:No, definitely not In the Greatest Star of All. There's a couple of mentions again to people, and one of them is Clara Bow.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And this is really interesting because Clara Bow is brought up in Bonnie and Clyde- that's right, and also Clara Bow and this will make sense because people will hear this first and then they'll hear another episode after this. And Clara Bow somebody very famous has a song about Clara Bow, Taylor Swift. Oh, and how everything was sort of like foreshadowed. And Taylor Swift apparently has a new album coming out. And there's a lot of talk about Clara Bow at the moment because of one of her songs and how she did. Easter eggs during that.
Speaker 2:So I just love how we are always on point.
Speaker 1:So on point, it's not even funny.
Speaker 2:Anyway, the other person that was mentioned in the greatest star ball is Fatty Arbuckle mmm okay. Fatty Arbuckle. Wait till you hear this. He was a a comedian, so he was a comic in a comedic, sorry. In the silent films he was the very first actor to have a one million pound comic lucky him back there too.
Speaker 2:So actor to have a one million pound car, lucky him Back then too. So massive amounts of money. But in 1921 he was charged with the murder of actress Virginia Grappe I think her name is, but this was inaccurate.
Speaker 1:Actually.
Speaker 2:Virginia passed out at a party due to a swollen bile or abdomen or something to do with that and he crowded a bed and it was her friend that claimed that he had SA'd her and then killed her. And there was absolutely no evidence that he had no evidence whatsoever that he was arrested. He had to go on trial three times before he was acquitted and he was acquitted with an apology from the jury.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this rings a bell. Was there like a movie made of this? Oh, I don't know, maybe not Just this. You know his story, like his ringing a bell. Maybe I've read it somewhere before, but insane.
Speaker 2:Like insane. So, and she, this friend, was known to be a liar. So but yes, despite the fact that he was acquitted, he was banned from movies for a year. He did do a little bit of work under synonym I can just say that word until Warner Brothers said okay, we're going to give you a contract for a full length feature film. He signed that contract on the 28th of June 1933 and he died the next day.
Speaker 1:I knew what you were going to say what like awful per fatty or buckle?
Speaker 2:I know, I know poor fatty Arbuckle, I know, isn't that shocking?
Speaker 1:That's rubbish. Yeah, there's a lot of that rings a bell, but I couldn't tell you why. I'm going to have to Google that when we're finished, if they've done.
Speaker 2:If there's a movie or something, yeah, there you go. So that's what I learned. I learned about Mr Arbuckle there you go.
Speaker 1:Can we talk about one of the best written musical theatre songs ever, for the exquisite lyrics? With One Lick it. And it's only when you know the story of Sunset Boulevard, like when you. If you listen to it it's a great song, but when you know it in the context, it's so excellent. It's excellent because it sums up the art of the silent movies perfectly. Whilst breaking your heart for an old, jaded actress, she sings with one look. I can break your heart with one look. I play every part. I can make your. She sings with one look. I can break your heart With one look. I play every part. I can make your sad heart sing With one look. You'll know all you need to know. It also describes me perfectly.
Speaker 2:You.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you know the way people say Tim your face.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, tim your face. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like everyone knows what I'm thinking or how I feel by my face but like, as the years have got older, you've got better have I? I think I've got worse no, you're much better.
Speaker 1:You're more aware of your face am I yes ok, I'm glad to hear that because, yeah, with one look I could break your heart. She also sings to my people in the dark still out there in the dark, and I love I'm just a wee emotional wreck really I just love the depth of that line because, to norma, the people in the dark are her audience, you know, in the movie theater. Alternatively, the people in the dark could represent her remaining fans, which there's probably few left who are like avidly watching her films or still sitting in the dark venues or watching the greatest star of all and waiting for her return to the stage and I think Matt is her.
Speaker 2:well, shall I just say, it's not really a big spoiler.
Speaker 1:I mean we've said that she kills Joe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Matt is presented as her butler, but he's actually her husband and he's like been writing her fan mail, so she still thinks that she's got these people sitting in the dark like writing to her and she doesn't. He just loves her that much I know he's writing the letters writing the letters, so he's kind of adding to her delusion. Yeah, yeah, that is so sad when you think, like she thinks, that there's people longing for her in the dark.
Speaker 1:And do you know one of the bits that breaks my heart the most for her? She refers to her people in the dark. It's not in a song, but it's in one of the scenes where she's talking to Joe and she goes I'm just having a. I think it's after the first time she's tried to commit suicide. And he comes back to her and he's like why'd you do that? That was, you know, stupid. And she was like I'm going through a tough time at the moment. She says and she says I even bought a revolver, but I just couldn't go through with it. All I could think about was my fans, and what would they do? I was like, oh bless her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know Jodie's delusional.
Speaker 1:Oh, but God bless her.
Speaker 2:I think this is why it doesn't scare me is because I think that I feel that she has a lot of heart. She's not presented at the beginning as a very scary character.
Speaker 1:You can't but just feel sorry for the woman. A very scary character. You can't but just feel sorry for the woman. Like there's pity there. There's so much pity for the character.
Speaker 2:This time next year. The song isn't it called this Time Next Year. It's always usually sang in condiments Perfect Year. Perfect Year. It's usually always sang in Cinderella condiments.
Speaker 1:I think that's lovely this year will be the perfect year.
Speaker 2:Well, yes, that is what I wanted to say. No, there is a song called this Time Next Year, I'm pretty sure there is, because they say who do you borrow this from? And she says Adolfi Menjou. And he was an American actor considered the epitome of the word debonair. He was always voted the best dressed man. Oh yeah, I think it's like after, and it isn't like after or something after. She's like wear this, wear this, like you spent all the money on him okay or maybe it's like in that song fair enough that line.
Speaker 2:um, yeah, there's a lot of lessons within Sunset Boulevard about and even just how Hollywood back then treated their big stars. Yeah, she was at the top of her game and then just okay, you're no longer needed.
Speaker 1:And now they only want her for her car. Oh, that's so sad. That's like gold too.
Speaker 2:I know my way around here. That's the only song I can sing that I'm proud of. No, that one. And there's another song, so that one.
Speaker 1:What's the?
Speaker 2:other one Tell Me On A Sunday.
Speaker 1:Oh nice.
Speaker 2:So they're the only two songs. After I sing it, I'm like, oh, I did a great job. No, this was years ago.
Speaker 1:Shut up. You need to wise up.
Speaker 2:But I love how she's so apprehensive, Like God, what we've been to see. She's just like, oh, love.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think that that happens a lot whenever you have a real emotional connection, like I'll feel it. If I'm like backstage, it doesn't matter, like I'm most of the time, I'm backstage now, I'm never performing, but I have like a real oh, this is where I'm meant to be, like yeah, you're in the right place where I've been like helping some teenagers at the minute we're putting on a production I'm like, oh, this is what I, you know, it just feels familiar and safe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, you can, I think I can totally understand how normal feels, yeah I think we all would.
Speaker 1:Yeah, shall we talk about our stand nose then? So I've already mentioned some of my stand-os are With One Look, sunset Boulevard, as If We've Never Said Goodbye. Just for the lyrics, like storytelling acting through song, like hello they're all three are my stand-ovations really.
Speaker 1:I got a bit annoyed with myself, though, because Too Much In Love to Care is a beautiful love story between Joe and Betty, and I do not know why I forgot about it and I didn't put it in our love Remember. For Valentine's this year we did our love song because I think it could have kicked some, maybe some, out of my top, because it's beautiful.
Speaker 2:It's funny because I think I heard one of the other reviewers talk about Sunset Boulevard. It's not a love triangle, it's like a love diamond because there's so many people that are connected in different ways.
Speaker 1:That's true, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think as well you forget, because Joe sort of says to Betty no, I don't love you, let go away, go marry your man, he's only doing that to protect betty because he knows that norma's on an episode. Yeah, but then that's kind of the last thing he says to her and she thinks yeah that's how he feels you forget.
Speaker 1:But is that? But? Is that why he throws that all away at the end? Or is it the fact that he can't throw away being looked after and living in the man and the lifestyle that he has also become accustomed to?
Speaker 1:Become accustomed to her things Wrong show and I suppose we on Song Hero and we've talked a little bit about them, but we haven't talked a huge amount because they often do get overshadowed. However, max doesn't have very much to sing but, my God, the two opportunities where he does, he makes the most of it and really leaves a mark when he sings the greatest star of it and really leaves a mark when he sings the greatest star of all. And no ways to dream reprise. It's those moments in the theatre which you just remember for being eerily quiet, like everything goes, like just still, as he's like recalling what it was like, what she was like in the day.
Speaker 2:Apparently, that's what was really intense and great about the cameras in. Jamie Lloyd's, because it was right just at their eyes. So all the emotion that Max, in particular, was feeling was just displayed on the screen.
Speaker 1:And the 2024 cast recording is wow, wow, wow. So if you want to listen, listen to that one first, because I also think story-wise it gives it to you a bit more.
Speaker 2:And do you feel at the beginning there's like a little bit of like a jazz feel to it. I feel, compared to the original, that it feels like there's more. I don't know, maybe.
Speaker 1:I have to say Andrew Lloyd Webber is at his best in Sunset Boulevard, like by this point in his career he he was doing special things he still does.
Speaker 1:Does, does, does. But like that overture and those lush big sounds, lush big orchestral moments. You know me, I love a wee orchestra. All right, what would Paddy do? I got one for you. Would you rather be in the room with Paddy when she confronted Andrew Lloyd Webber for ever, looking over her for the Broadway production? Or would you rather be featured in Thomas Francis's live Sunset Boulevard being filmed on Shubert Alley in Broadway? Because that's what they did in this last this recent production. It's a good one, isn't?
Speaker 2:it. I mean, I would feel super uncomfortable, but I do love a bit of drama, so I think I would love to be in the room, as Paddy is there, I'll take your million and I'll make a pool out of your weather.
Speaker 1:I think that's what I would go with too, although I wouldn't mind doing a Ouija out with Tom Francis, to be fair, because I did sing his song tonight and I think I did a rather good job. I know, I know, I know, listen, I did. We've run out of time and we're a wee bit over time because it's two friends who haven't seen each other for an awfully long time. So you're getting a wee bonus episode, bonus extra long episode. But they have released the cast for Paddington the musical this week, but they haven't released me yet as Paddington that's to come. That's the big surprise, because I saw loads of people going. What about Paddington who's playing? Paddington that's to come? That's the big surprise, because I saw loads of people going. What about Paddington who's playing Paddington? It's like it's me.
Speaker 2:I just need to, you know, cross a few T's and dot at the I's, but I'll be there.
Speaker 1:Indeed, you clever girl, you dropped in a little Easter egg in the middle of our episode. So maybe the swifties need to stay tuned to next week's episode, because we might be having a visitor or two well, you never know yeah it's exciting it is exciting so, swifties, see you here next week.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and thank you so much for joining us and allowing us to have our summer break.
Speaker 1:I know I'm sorry. I'll never do it again until this time next year. Really appreciate, but I do appreciate you not disappearing unless nobody listens to this episode because all our listeners have gone elsewhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're hanging on, they're waiting for us, but don't worry, we won't be away, and we did promise you that we would have a really packed. So there's no more holidays for you, mister. That's it for this segment.
Speaker 1:If you're with me, next year will be the perfect year. That was beautiful. Till next week, bye. That was beautiful, till next week, bye.
