Musical Lyrical Lingo
We're Musical Lyrical Lingo!
Join Tim and Lj who delve deep into the wonderful world of musical theatre and more importantly the lessons they have learned from different musicals.
Join them as they explore some of the greatest musicals ever created, from the classics to the new and exciting shows that continue to teach us something new.
So whether you're a seasoned fan of the stage or a newcomer, this podcast is for you.
So sit back, relax and get ready to immerse yourself in the world of musical theatre.
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Musical Lyrical Lingo
Les Misérables: The Musical That Makes You Laugh While You Cry
Join us as we unwrap the layers of Les Misérables in this exciting podcast episode! We're thrilled to have Kerry Rodgers, the talented director shaking up the classic musical for its big 40th anniversary.
Listen in as we discuss how this iconic show not only entertains but educates us on profound themes like love, sacrifice, and societal justice.
In our engaging discussion, we explore Kerry's journey into the magical world of musical theatre and how her experiences led her to take on this momentous project. You'll hear about her insights on directing, the challenges faced in making Les Mis a fresh experience for the audience, and the importance of kindness and compassion in both the narrative and our real lives.
As the conversation unfolds, we also delve into character dynamics—why Valjean captures our hearts while Javert challenges our perceptions of morality. The stories told through these beloved songs resonate powerfully even today.
And if you've ever wanted to learn about the history of Les Mis, you won't want to miss our exploration of how the musical evolved from a concept album to the grand production it is today. So, whether you're a long-time fan or new to the musical, tune in for heartfelt insights, laughter, and inspiration. Let’s keep the spirit of Les Misérables alive—join the conversation today! Don’t forget to subscribe and share your thoughts with us!
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Hello and welcome to Musical Lyrical Lingo. We're your hosts.
Speaker 2:Tim and LJ. Today and every week we will be discussing musicals, but specifically what they taught us you forgot your name there, didn't you? I forgot who I was, where I was and what I was doing. I was in a ditch room.
Speaker 1:You were yeah, oh, it's me, it's my turn.
Speaker 2:It's because I'm so excited, because we aren't alone. We're not alone.
Speaker 1:We're not alone. Is that you? Were you waiting on the other person to introduce themselves?
Speaker 2:No, no, I was just like oh yes, I'm even different. Did you think I was replacing you already, lauren? No, oh yeah, fair, no, so why am I saying that we're not alone? We have a special guest, yay.
Speaker 1:Our first of this, first of season three. First of season three, aren't you lucky.
Speaker 2:Oh, you can hear a little voice in the background. So today we are actually going to be discussing musical Les Mis, but before we get into that, I'm going to introduce our special guest, Kerry Rogers. So Kerry has always had a love and passion for performing arts and at age 17 directed her first musical and at age 17, directed her first musical. Kerry has directed for many Northern Ireland venues and is currently directing Les Mis as part of Cameron McIntosh's celebration of 40 years of the show for the Grand Opera House, which will be running from the 4th of March to the 8th of March 2025.
Speaker 1:Don't worry about it too much, because there's no tickets left. I know, hi, kerry, hi, you're really nervous, aren aren't you?
Speaker 2:I'm so nervous oh, don't be nervous. No, please do not be nervous, it is only us it's just, I'm talking to your pal I know well.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. What a treat. Oh yeah, it is a treat for us. Um, we have been kind of interesting with our podcast, where we haven't done lots of the big musicals, but we knew whenever this opportunity had come up for you guys that it would be a chance to chat to you. So thanks for coming on and getting to share our Les Mis.
Speaker 1:It's my idea pal right, do this podcast on Les Mis.
Speaker 2:We've had enough. No, no right. Well, if you, if you've had enough, I'm just going to talk to Carrie then. So, carrie, thank you so much.
Speaker 1:When this episode goes out.
Speaker 2:It is the week of layman's oh my goodness, yeah, I know so hopefully it's going well. Yeah, it'll be going great, Absolutely going great. Thank you so much for joining us, so I would love to ask you a couple of questions, if you're okay with that, of course, before we get into the big mega musical that is Les Mis. This is where she grows you, oh my goodness. First off, where did the love of musical theater come from?
Speaker 3:oh um, that's a lovely question. I hope I don't ramble too much um I suppose whenever I was really really young, my my mom sent me to be prepared because I'm really really quiet, which I am not anymore, thanks to be replayers, I know can you believe, I can't believe literally, literally um.
Speaker 3:And then I suppose we go just doing musicals with fever kind of um. And I started there when I was like eight, maybe seven or eight, so I think just doing musicals there really I sparked a real love um in in me and mum was really good at like taking us to musicals in the opera house and going to see different amdram groups and everything. So I think mum always had a really big interest in it, and my dad does too, actually um. So yeah, it kind of just sparked from really really young and then it just grew and grew, as I, as I kind of found my place and where.
Speaker 3:I fit into musical theater world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, that's so lovely. That's kind of similar to us where we were shoved in somewhere and then just that love and passion kind of grew, grew around. But then directing is that kind of where you feel you found your place in it yeah, definitely, definitely.
Speaker 3:So I think it'll be the same as you too. Like whenever you're growing up in it, you don't really have a choice, especially when you're to to do anything but perform, and while I did love it, and like I've made some of my best friends that I still have now in the repairs and everything, there was definitely an element of this isn't quite right.
Speaker 3:Like I got so, so nervous and like painfully so, not like not like normally so, and I kind of wanted to have a little bit more control okay yeah a little bit more creative control, I think, um, and so whenever I kind of got the opportunity and to I was asked to direct my friends and I, I took the opportunity, um to do it and I just loved it. It was, it felt like that fitted me and I was not great at the start, but I learned a lot from doing that and, um, yeah, I think that's where. I kind of was able to start finding my voice and finding who I was within musical theatre, and I loved it so much more because.
Speaker 3:I loved musical theatre always. I loved everything about it. But yeah, just finding where I fit into it took a little bit longer.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's really exciting. So what about your friendship, then, between the two of you? How did you meet and what is the journey and the story there? So Adam introduced us, I think my husband.
Speaker 1:Yes my pain.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my husband introduced us because Adam had worked on something with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a big musical theatre. Concert in the. Opera House, and that was the first, like I didn't really know adam either like we got thrown together to work together and just hit it off very quickly and that doesn't I don't think in life that happens very often where you meet somebody where you're like oh, I actually really like this person like they're really good at what they do, but they're absolutely brilliant as a person, so then I was worried about meeting you guys.
Speaker 1:There's no way like his other half could be as cool as he is.
Speaker 3:I was like I think you veered towards Adam at the start, but I think I'm taking it. I love it.
Speaker 1:I love it so yeah, that's why it?
Speaker 3:happened and then, but I hadn't worked with you until.
Speaker 1:Hunchback that's right. Yeah, which was what?
Speaker 2:two years ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and that was a real turning point, like, I think, when you're you've been doing musical theatre for as long as we have. It's very easy to get and just you know, doing show after show after show or like a couple of shows a year, like it is easy to get a bit monotonous, monotonous and bored and like the buzz of it, isn't uh like, don't get me wrong, you still enjoy it, or else you wouldn't do it, but there's just not that like spark yeah always and I was getting to the point where I was ready to go.
Speaker 1:You know what it is, I'm done. I've had my days like, because I was a bit like you? Yeah, I started choreographing, like when I was 17, 18 I think and I got that stage and then I started working with you and it was just really new, really fresh, like she is amazing at what she does. You can't stop. No, you are.
Speaker 1:But that's all I'm going to say about you because I don't want to blow smoke up your backside because I have to work with you, but no, it was. It was just new and exciting and it was she. Sorry, kerry works in a way that I haven't worked before. Okay, without you know yeah you know some of the previous and don't get me wrong every director I've worked with I have loved and enjoyed working with.
Speaker 1:But you were just like different and you were also the first female director and I think that is very exciting and is different and it brings loads of opportunities. And, yeah, I just love you and I just love working with you and I think we have a laugh like even if it's absolutely god awful, like it was last night we just we laugh rather than going like and I think I need somebody. I need somebody like that to work with. So that's how we met. I'm a lover, yeah, and I looked after her dogs on her wedding day oh, that's nice amazing he was one of our best men he, he was absolutely amazing.
Speaker 3:But Timmy as well is incredible to work with. We have the best time. What he can do his storytelling through his choreography is just incredible and anybody who sees the shows I'm sure will agree. But I'm a big advocate for having laughter in the room. A director that I worked with and looked up to so much told me that it's the best recipe in a rehearsal room and it's because people are comfortable if they're comfortable to laugh and they're comfortable to make choices.
Speaker 3:So it's a big thing for me, but it's so, so lovely having Tim, because then, even if nobody else is laughing, we're laughing.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:Catch yourselves on, though, because somebody could be singing a really heart wrenching like song and we're like at the table like giggling away like not nothing to do with what they're doing but something that's happened somewhere in the room or something I've said that you. That's only landed with you like three minutes later. It's just very full mind and you have to go.
Speaker 2:Oh god, no, actually, they're actually crying right now yeah, yeah absolutely so all those things you're told not to do as a child, then you're doing the other side of the table, like you can get away totally see, if I had to direct myself, I would hate yeah I am so chatty, I'm so giggly.
Speaker 3:I like don't listen, but like it's all.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's why I shouldn't have yeah I think like working on a show like lame is it's quite miserable yeah so I've really enjoyed actually being able to have a bit of a laugh.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's easy. It would be easy to leave rehearsals feeling quite drained because obviously the themes are so sad and miserable and it's very difficult, but because we've got each other and we've got a really amazing cast, that we're having loads of fun, then we do leave the rehearsals nine times out of ten feeling uplifted and things yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that sounds amazing. So we have kind of slowly talked about Les Mis. So before I ask more questions about how yous got involved in that, let's go into Les Mis itself.
Speaker 1:Les Mis is one of the most popular and successful musicals ever. What are we doing with the most successful?
Speaker 2:musicals ever.
Speaker 1:Initially started as a French concept album, but ultimately became the longest running musical in the history of the West End, as well as an international smash hit.
Speaker 2:And that was one of my very first musical lyrical lingo's. I did not know that it was originally a concept album yeah, back in the day, that was a thing, wasn't?
Speaker 1:it they threw out an album of a musical in the hope that it kind of.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so like Jesus Christ, superstar, evita are just the ones that we've covered recently. But yeah, and then obviously Hadestown is a more recent one. That was a concept album first, but yeah, that was my first musical lyrical angle.
Speaker 1:It wasn't a great success, the concept album. It was only when London producer Cameron McIntosh kind of came on board in 1983, shortly after Cats had opened on Broadway, a copy of the French album of Les Mis landed on his desk and he later wrote. When I first heard the French album of Les Mis landed on his desk and he later wrote when I first heard the French concept album, a dream of what the show could be flashed through my mind.
Speaker 2:Well, that's not totally true, because he initially was reluctant. Okay, fair enough. Two years in conjunction with RSE, and then it opened in the Barbican before it transferred to West End.
Speaker 1:I mean it comes from one of the greatest novels of the 19th century, you know from Victor Hugo, and I, going into the process, thought I would be proper, fancy, like take my job really seriously, because Kerry takes her job really seriously. And so she was all about the novel she was talking away about. You know, victor says this and Victor says that first name terms what it is, I'm gonna have to get the bloody book and read it aren't I so I?
Speaker 1:ordered it off Amazon and then nearly choked when I'd arrived and I couldn't fit through my letterbox because the book. Have you seen the size of the book?
Speaker 2:Yes, it's huge.
Speaker 1:And I was like there's no offense to you, love, but there's no way I said that tonight. There's no way, I'm reading that, so you may give me page numbers.
Speaker 2:Spark notes.
Speaker 1:Because every so often in the rehearsals we go and he's, you know, he describes his character and then like blurts out this and I'm like, yeah, I've read that bit too. Yeah, so yeah, I mean, victor Hugo, what a legend. Just if he could like summarize the story in a few less chapters.
Speaker 2:Well, that's kind of what the musical has done, isn't it what the musical? That's true. It's true, yeah, yeah, so you had said, it premiered in paris in 1980 and that was directed by. Am I saying this right, robert hasian? Yeah, yeah, um. However, the english language adaptation has been running in london since october 1985, making it the longest running musical in the west end. Hence why this 40th anniversary?
Speaker 1:Yeah so I mean, cameron loves a good old anniversary, doesn't he so? Like for the 25th anniversary they did all these fabulous, like concert-y versions.
Speaker 2:Even like it's been from the 10th, 10th, 20th, 25th, yeah.
Speaker 1:So he loves a good old anniversary. So for the 40th anniversary they came up with this line Miserableables, let's Hear the People Sing. So, cameron McIntosh. In association with Musical Theatre International, they've joined together to bring a UK wide amateur theatre project. Amateurs haven't been able to perform Les Mis. You can't get the rights to do that. You can do your school's version, which is an abridged version and you have to be under 18.
Speaker 3:Under 18, like in your last school year, in the age of your last school year okay, so it's quite strict very, very much so, because it's still in london doing really well.
Speaker 1:So, uh, why would you? You know?
Speaker 2:yeah right.
Speaker 1:So the project is going to see 11 community-wide productions of Les Mis being mounted in cities across the UK, um, including Belfast, which is what we're doing. The more I talk about this, the more I want to book in a bucket Birmingham, brighton, bristol, glasgow, leeds, liverpool, nottingham, norwich, cornwall and Swansea. That is fab. So I mean it's a great opportunity for real fans of the show, and we did open editions, didn't we?
Speaker 1:nearly 500 people signed up to edition, so it's a big thing for fans of the show who want to be in the show, like you know who never could have got the opportunity and you know some, some of the people involved in amateur theater who, like, never thought they would have the opportunity to sing a Jean Valjean or in a in a fully stage production so it is a stage production. It's not like a concert version of it, so it's been lovely it's been lovely seeing everybody.
Speaker 3:Like super keen and you know delighted to be involved absolutely it's been nice because it's in collaboration as well with the three companies and with the open audition, so it's been very fresh and people have like made new friends and things. The open audition so it's been very fresh and people have like made new friends and things like that. So yeah, it's really nice yeah it.
Speaker 2:It just seems like there's a big buzz around it and from, obviously, um, I follow a lot on tiktok, you know, from other companies across the water which are doing it and their audition process and all seems really exciting. But that is how lame is started. It was that, alan. Um, I'm just going to go with first name terms um. His initial idea to adapt um Hugo's novel came from inspiration while he was watching Oliver.
Speaker 1:Which I thought was like class.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 3:No, I didn't know that. I was just thinking that.
Speaker 2:He shared the idea then with Shonsberg and two years later every role was completed with a demo tape with Shonsberg himself playing and singing every role.
Speaker 1:So you'll love this fact, kerry, because you love this character, I think, in Les role. So you'll love this Fat, kerry, because you love this character, I think, in Les Mis. So when he was watching the West End revival of Oliver, he said as soon as the Artful Dodger came on stage, gavroche came to his mind and you love Gavroche.
Speaker 3:I do love.
Speaker 2:Gavroche.
Speaker 3:He's just amazing.
Speaker 2:I love that, but just from the fact that he was watching and another musical then inspired this fantastic musical, and I think that's what's going to happen with what you guys are doing. I think people are going to come and see lay maze who maybe have never had the opportunity to go to london and and see a full production of it, um, and you're going to inspire another generation, which is going to be really exciting that's a lot more.
Speaker 1:That's a lot more pressure no, but I feel it is yeah yeah, I think it's a big thing for them to be able to go yeah but I think it's a big thing for everyone.
Speaker 2:Like you'd said, like not very many people would ever get the opportunity. And I remember, um, only a couple of weeks ago, watching some guy's edition for somewhere in england um, he's going to be doing a version and somebody was like, oh, is this in the west end? And we're like no, but this was as if he had just got a part in the west end. I was like it does mean so much to amdram people, um, and it's amazing. So let's go back to that. How did you both feel whenever you found out you were going to be involved in this project?
Speaker 1:you were first, weren't you?
Speaker 3:I was. Oh well, yes, I think.
Speaker 1:I was oh, listen, your story is so much more interesting, yeah.
Speaker 3:So basically, um, bsc came to me and asked me if I was interested and of course I like bit their hand off. Um, because I the show, I'm obsessed with it, it's great. But I did have to submit a vision. Okay, and it's the first time I've had to do one in writing. It's normal enough to talk through a vision, but in writing I'm much more of a talker. So I was a bit worried about like getting my point across, like in kind of like an essay sort of thing.
Speaker 3:Um, and I had to submit like mood boards of what I felt the costumes would be and what I felt the set would be, and things like that. So, um, yeah, I was so nervous. I was like, have I done this right? Have I put enough work in? Have I put too many words in? Or like everything was going through my head. I got um good advice from a friend of mine and things like that. But, um, yeah, and then I can't remember how long it took actually until I found out that that it had been accepted. I don't think it was that long, but it probably felt, and I also, at this stage, don't think I didn't, don't think I could have told anyone.
Speaker 3:I think it was still a secret so I wasn't able to tell anyone, um, but yeah, and then we, I got the news and it was just so excited, terrified and all of those things, like I was petrified, but I was, yeah, I was like really really excited as well, obviously yeah and they asked me and I said, yes, didn't have to give in anything there's no homework, I say for me, I'll just admit something that was terrifying, but it was actually kind of good, because then it's like it's been okayed yes, yeah it kind of was it kind of settled me a little bit.
Speaker 3:I was like okay, so I'm not going to do anything that they're going to be really, really cross up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, or like or get halfway through a vision that you maybe had and then somebody say actually no, you can't do that. If you were able to lay everything out and get that approval.
Speaker 1:And they're also. They were very clear from the word go that it can't be a replica of what's going on?
Speaker 2:in.
Speaker 1:London. Like it has to be an original you know, version of the story you know of Les Mis.
Speaker 2:And that's something I wanted to ask you about, kerry like how does that feel as a director, knowing that you have you've got this piece of theatre which lots of people know about and you know there's certain elements of it which are really memorable and, um, you could just shoot a non-theatre goer and they would know it comes from Les Mis. So how was that, knowing that you weren't going to be doing a complete replica and you did have a little bit of, um, creative control over your version?
Speaker 3:yeah, well, I, um, I think I'm quite difficult in ways because I'm I rarely replicate and and not because I, not because I think if the first was bad, by any means but I really do try yeah, I do try to kind of keep my own brain on it and it's kind of like I haven't went to see it or anything like that in since I found out, because, apart from the uh arena, because it was very different.
Speaker 1:It was obviously a concert version so it felt very different.
Speaker 3:It was absolutely incredible and I I would never want to unconsciously pick something up, I want it to kind of come from my brain. I want it to feel authentic, not to me, but authentic to the process and things like that. So, yeah, it's nice to have the freedom to not have to replicate To me. I would never like to, but I suppose there's always going to be worries in the back of your head, like always. Are people going to be like why is this like this? Why this wasn't like worries?
Speaker 1:in the back of your head to like always are are people going to be like, why is this like this? Why? Why? This wasn't like this in the show and this wasn't like this in the show and yeah, and there was a few things early on, wasn't there processes of are you having this or what about that? And everything was, you know, an iconic Les Mis moment or an iconic lane? Is yes um prop and a lot of that.
Speaker 3:A lot of it is not there. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:and it's like no, it's not in our version. Yeah, and at the beginning. At the beginning it made my tummy churn every time I said it, but the more I got into the process I'm like nah stuff it.
Speaker 3:We don't need that like you know what we've got is different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a yeah, and you know and I think like it's nice it's.
Speaker 3:The story is so vast and there's so many layers to the story, so many little stories going on within this, within the piece, that you can't load it with too much convolutions yeah you can't make it convoluted yeah.
Speaker 3:Adding, I don't know, setting it on Mars or something like that, so I didn't need to think like well how are we going to do this? Like the story is important enough, it's good enough it lives in its own entity. So it just. I wasn't reinventing the wheel by any means, but like it just needed to feel authentic to me, for me to really have the passion in it which I have it is authentic to me. I think it'll come together.
Speaker 1:It's amazing at this point, when this goes out, it's too late it's kind of laughing if Lauren had asked these questions even a month ago, I think we'd both be on the floor crying like rocking back and forward. I know I've been. If Lauren had asked these questions even a month ago, I think we'd both be on the floor crying, like rocking back and forward, but now we're too far in.
Speaker 2:We're too far in, we can't even reassess it. No, it will be. It will be. So for those that maybe are listening that don't necessarily know what Les Mis is about, it is the story of Jean Valjean, a French peasant who is released from jail after stealing a loaf of bread Volgine, oh gosh.
Speaker 3:I don't know what that was. That would be in the beginning of the rehearsal processes.
Speaker 1:How do you say that, Kerry? How do you say that?
Speaker 3:student's name, or how do you spell that?
Speaker 1:Do you know what Just get or how do?
Speaker 2:you spell that yeah, I think I can only say his surname if I say Jean Valjean, I don't know if I can say it. Um, yeah, I know, just go with that. Just go with that. Um, he is given a second chance. Um, after he breaks his parole, starts a new life in disguise and ends up adopting a young girl after a promise to her mother, all while being pursued by inspector named javert. The characters are soon swept into the young idealist's attempts to overthrow the government, and that is a really like butchered version of my list it's hard to summarize it, so I think that was pretty good.
Speaker 1:Okay, that was pretty good that was good because I've seen the size of the book, yeah, so you've got the most of the main threads in there, so well done yeah, I think that was good thank you because I often go into it and there's also this and this kind of happens and yeah, so I was just trying to get, like get the elements there.
Speaker 2:So it is a sung through musical by Claude Michael Schoenberg.
Speaker 1:You gave up at the end there.
Speaker 2:I know, and Alan Goobl Not quite, and Sean Mark Nattel Is that right? The lyrics and book were by them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think Herbert Krintzmer also was in charge of writing the English lyrics yes. Yeah. So just give him a wee nod, I suppose, because without him we'd still be singing in French.
Speaker 2:We'd still be singing it in French Absolutely, absolutely. So what about musical lyrical lingos then?
Speaker 1:Lordy days.
Speaker 2:It is a big musical. It is a big musical, it is a big one. I have a few musical lyrical lingos. Great, I would say overall. Um, this is one of my top five, timothy, if you know what I mean top five that. Musicals that scare me what name is I don't like anything that doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy oh, fair, fair days so this is one of the five musicals that makes me feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:So, um, actually, whenever we got the opportunity to go and see the arena tour, um, and I took CJ, my um eldest, with me I loved it because I walked away not feeling so depressed and I don't know whether or not it's because it was just more that arena concert style I wasn't submerged in it. Also, les Mis is one of those musicals I have seen the most. Do you know, like any trip, anything like that, people were like, oh, here's tickets for Les Mis, go see Les Mis, you know. So I have seen it a lot like the original production, a lot, um, but yeah, it doesn't always make me feel okay, the nicest no, it's not going to keep you warm so um, I'm just keeping that in mind whenever we're discussing the musical lica lingus yeah yeah, true yeah
Speaker 1:one of the one of the things I learned um when researching actually for the podcast, were the changes that were made okay as the show developed from, obviously that that initial french french concept album to Cameron getting involved and it continued to develop after Macintosh came on board and he explained in an interview that Stars was actually written originally for Javert.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:Because the original Javert did you know.
Speaker 2:This Stars is sung by Javert.
Speaker 1:Oh sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry, sorry. So yes, oh goodness me it's okay because the original chabert, roger allen, had pointed out that his character needed to express why he was so driven, which makes sense, doesn't it? Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And then On my Own. This was the one On my Own had originally been a song for Fontaine called L'Air de la Miserie.
Speaker 2:Oh, I think.
Speaker 1:I've pronounced that. I mean it's been a long time since I did it in GCSE French. But the creators then gave the song to Eppening so that Fontaine would not have like two big ballads in a row just before she died.
Speaker 2:Oh, a bit much for her, a bit much A bit much, there we go, that's really interesting.
Speaker 1:I know, I did not know that One of the biggest things I've learned about the musical and it was from Kerry when we started talking about this was just how important a role the bishop played.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:And you kind of, because in the musical he's there at the beginning and then he disappears. Do you know what I mean? So he's got like one scene yeah, doesn't he like?
Speaker 3:like several bars, but that line he sings.
Speaker 1:But remember this, my brother, that um, uh, there is some higher plan, you know, and how you've incorporated that into our production, won't say too much, but yeah, it's only. It was only when you pointed it out to me I went, oh yeah, actually. And then when I did go, I keep going back to my book because I, honest to goodness, you don't understand. Well, this is the problem. Okay, reading it, and I was about a page 525 in and I'm still all about the bishop- right, okay and I went carrie.
Speaker 1:When did we? When did we move past the bishop?
Speaker 2:because I'm still going actually watching it recently with a more of an adult view. Um, yeah, I think the bishop is like a key character, but I think as you get older and you understand more things, you're like if it was this person's grace that meant that, you know, then Cosette was able to have a better life. Do you know what I mean? Like from literally one person showing kindness, then that impacted a lot of people.
Speaker 3:I love that in it and I think he is the turning point and Victor Hugo talks about. I will not remember the actual quote you will I won't. I won't remember the actual one, but it's something about like um darkness isn't in those who committed committed the sin. It's in those who didn't help people get out of the darkness or something like that.
Speaker 3:But it's basically saying that, you know, those who are in jail aren't the problem. It's the fact that they were so impoverished that they had to commit sin, or they, or or maybe they were so uneducated that they committed sin. So it's actually of the, you know, the upper class or whatever.
Speaker 3:Yeah, put the effort into helping those he talks a lot about as well. If a school opens, um that a jail door closes. So basically, like the more education that people can get, the the less likely they're going to go into jail and things like that. But it's all about just being gracious to others. That's, I think, the message that victor hugo says in so many of of his works. It's just like if you do good to others, then good will come of it. Yeah, and I think that's it's so beautifully shown through Valjean and it's so beautifully shown in the show that um, just be nice yeah, nice yeah, and love for love's sake, not because of you know staunch views yeah, no, and that and that.
Speaker 2:That is nice, and that's maybe where I'm wondering. Is that maybe why I didn't feel so heavy after watching it as an adult with my daughter, because I could see all of those nice key sort of loving moments in it, rather than watching it when I was much younger and just seeing death? Yeah, and that's all I really remember Lainé's being.
Speaker 1:I get that too because you blink and you miss a bit you know, yeah and you don't, because it should be uplifting at the end.
Speaker 3:But it's hard for it to be uplifting because most of the characters have died so that it's hard to, but it is. You know what happens at the end. Is this a spoiler? Should I say this?
Speaker 2:no, everyone knows, everyone knows the show right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like we see. Valjean be taken into the light by these people that he helped and were kind to and I think that's really lovely. Like he had a really hard life and then he was. There's something amazing about, but don't worry, because that's not the end. So it should be uplifting. Hopefully it's uplifting, like everyone else they all did.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So in that very first song in Les Mis, there's the mention of the mark of Cain and obviously, if you know the Bible, that is the mark of God to protect him from murder. But it also I didn't know this that the Hebrew word for mark is ot, which is o-t, which can mean sign, omen or warning. So whenever you look at the translation then it actually that line from Lamez is like yeah, he did have have this big warning sign on him when he left. That's really cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then, like a cur C-U-R, I walk the street. I didn't know that was a mongrel, a dog, no, you're right Animals pet really an important part they do oh.
Speaker 3:I love it when she goes out it when I was 19 or whatever, and I've just been recapping. I haven't re-read it all again recently. There's loads of animal imagery. So Valjean is described at the start.
Speaker 3:I think he's a dog that's been beaten, or, yes, a dog that's been beaten or whatever, and he's like in cage and he's like a wild animal basically, and then he becomes like a cage and he's like a wild animal, basically, um, and then he becomes like a lion, as he as he becomes protective and all of these things. And we talked a lot about it with our cast, because I think what you can get out of that is is is so interesting and I I'm I don't make them walk around like lions no, but they can take the characteristics of that yeah it was really interesting because then javert is described a lot as like a hound.
Speaker 3:He's like yeah, he's like a wolf find, that sort of thing where he's just finding his prey, and that's something really exciting to play on as well.
Speaker 1:Um, but there's loads of animal imagery, but it is amazing the difference it makes like instantly, like there were times in rehearsals where you would have spoken to the cast about those animalistic tendencies or how they were described in such a way, and then you would try the exactly the same section or the exactly the same thing, and it is completely transformed just by taking that that description it's really powerful?
Speaker 3:yeah, I think I think so. And we talked like do you remember when we did the at the end of the day kind of workshop? At the start, and again I used to quote from victor hugo like he's done all the work, I just tell them what it is, um? And there's this amazing paragraph that he wrote about you know, to be poor is to be hunted. To be poor, know, to be purr is to be hunted. To be purr is to be, um, to be hungry, to not have food, to not have clothes, all of these big things. And then one of them was to be a dog and I asked the cast to choose one of the things that that I had said and from the quote, and I wanted them to only think about that one thing, to be cool, to be. And we could see the ones that had chosen to be a dog, because immediately you're like whoa, that's yeah yeah, you know, and obviously they're not.
Speaker 3:Their hands on their feet, they're not itching or anything like that. Yeah you can just see those moments and, yeah, it really really worked. And I I think, if, if it comes to your brain, if, if animal, animal, animal studies and things like that won't help everybody, but if they help you they really, really help you Do, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:And I think the cast have been amazing at like putting that up. Yeah, it's lovely. I love it, though Victor's done all the work, I just love it. Victor loves his animals. He loves them, loves them.
Speaker 2:But it's a good way then to kind of get them to understand the character in like a different dimension then, and not from maybe what they've seen before, like on stage, you know, for them actually to think and try and make it their own too, you know, by going back to the original work yeah, absolutely because you can just, in the likes of, at the end of the day, get a lot of cold arms as we call them yeah you know, yeah, I'm going to break my arms
Speaker 2:and, like you know, another word I learned was I played the grateful serf, that correct as a peasant who walked um or worked the land in exchange for protection and justice, and usually the very bottom of society. So in all the language you can already tell that, um, jean Valjean just feels like he's nothing and he's, he's tried everything. You know he, obviously, we know he was only meant to be in jail for a small length of time and then because he tried to run away, but you know he, he has done what he felt was jail for a small length of time and then because he tried to run away, but you know he has done what he felt was necessary, by stealing the bread to try and save his niece, but it didn't work out. And now he's still going to be punished for it, even though he's about to be released what he goes through in those first say 10, 15 pages of that prologue.
Speaker 1:Once he is released, like you know, it just continues to be beaten down by society absolutely yeah, and I think.
Speaker 3:I think that that really has to come across, because it's quite a quite a short amount of time to show you know how awfully he was treated. And obviously you've got it's just a prologue.
Speaker 3:You've only got the prologue and then he completely changes by the end of the prologue, essentially because he's met the bishop, we had a turning point and so we really tried because it's so short, you just need to really treat him awfully for that first seven minutes. But yeah, it was so sad, so that's heartbreaking. But I think also you're trying to show what his character was, because you don't have very long to show that because you've got to see the big change.
Speaker 2:So if you don't see what's happened first, then you don't understand the big change and how much it did affect him yeah, and also, then, if you don't do that well enough, then Javert just looks like he's doing the right thing, you know, and I think that that you know you'll maybe talk about it a little bit more as we move on but you know, javert is not necessarily the the worst person in the script, but he but he's doing what he feels is necessary, but sometimes that can be just seen as he's just hounding him, you know, like what you said, rather than actually he's following the law, which in the law, you can't break. But actually Jean Valjean had to break the law in order to To pass. Yeah, so it's, you know. Yeah, it's all that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, we have talked a lot about jubaira's not the baddie, in my opinion at all patty yeah, I know he's not the villain. He isn't, he's. He's definitely um miss. What's that word miss?
Speaker 2:understood, yeah misunderstood.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's definitely misguided and, um, he's got these really really staunch views and everything and and again the book I'm gonna get on myself talking about book. But you find out a lot more about him, his past, in the book as well and how he. He was born inside a jail. That's in the show gosh, I nearly sang it, because his mom was a, was a prostitute and things like that. So then you kind of see, his reaction to fontaine is so much more different. So much different because you're like what you're.
Speaker 3:You've got this kind of backstory and so you can see he was. He was fighting his whole life to get into a different place in society as well. So he's definitely not the villain. He just went about it in a completely misguided way and I think it's really.
Speaker 2:That's definitely one of the things for in the show is that, like you have to allow yourself to be flexible, to forgiveness, you have to see the light in the shade, and he is just so black and white and it's and that's his downfall is the fact he's so black and white and and it's a problem, because he was, you know, obviously trying to get off a path and get away from an aim and I thought I know what I'll do. I'll just follow the rules exactly. But just following the rules doesn't mean that that's the right thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, which is just difficult then yeah, we got to the second act and I think that's what happened in the second act version of our, but it pulls apart but like that's, but it's, it all just goes. It just goes. Awful for him, because I think again another quote from the book. It says something like the floor beneath him started to shake or the world around him collapsed, something like that, and that's. We talked a lot about that. Basically, everything he has known doesn't make sense because the guy in his head was the villain he saved him in the end, because that doesn't work in a black and white world. So I love his journey is really. It's amazing to watch, like the Shabara's journey is so interesting because you don't know whether you like him or you don't know, and then at the end you're like gosh.
Speaker 3:I feel so awful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Maybe not everybody feels that way, but I definitely do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think my opinion of him has changed working on the show.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, big time, yeah, big time yeah yeah, yeah, it's interesting, um, I think definitely we've said this a lot with musicals it depends on what head or space that you come to them. You know, sometimes if you're first introduced to something, whenever you're little, um, it can have a different meaning and then, whenever you look at it with like, fresh eyes or in a modern society or something like that, then it takes on a whole new meaning. So I suppose for you guys, being like submerging yourselves in it, you are discovering way more than what you ever would from just watching and listening.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's just the different layers. Yeah, it's like an onion at times. You know, like, know what I mean. Like you just peel off the layer, layer after layer after layer. Yeah, really really interesting. And then also at the same time, on a very like shallow level, like words like bagatelle or Sante you know all of those like just the the language.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, you know what all of those like just the language. Yes, yeah, you know what I mean. Like, and the dogs are lovely ladies.
Speaker 1:And do you remember when we first? We were like oh, I don't know how I feel about choreographing prostitutes. Okay, but it was.
Speaker 2:I was very shy that first rehearsal you were, you were, so I was kind of like I feel really uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Got over it quick enough. Yeah, obviously so many horrible things happen to fontaine in that number. You know she, she sells her possession, she sells her hair, she goes into prostitution because she's no other, no other choice, and and it's usually like a snowball effect, isn't it, you know?
Speaker 2:so it goes from one thing into the next, into the next, and I think that the language that is used there, um, is how you can understand how just literally one, one small change can affect somebody's life for the worse.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know the old woman sings come here, my dear, let's see this trinket. You wear this bag of tail and a bag of tail slang for something, um, especially in the mind of money, that's actually quite small and not important yeah yeah, it's worth a sante.
Speaker 3:My dear monetary, uh, equivalent to 100th of a franc oh my, when you turned to me there, I thought you were going to ask me what it means. I was like I don't know. I know it's money, but I don't know.
Speaker 1:It's money. Another one, another favourite of mine is Master of the House, because actually it's a wee bit of like like relief for a couple of months isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, and we do have fun, like we took the opportunity to properly just go a bit yeah well, you said. We need to prove that that fastener is what a pub's like, and they sing.
Speaker 1:Customers appreciate a bon vivant a person who enjoys a suitable and luxurious lifestyle, ready to relieve them of a sue or two. And that's another former french coin of low value, everybody's boonone companion, b-o-o-n what did we bring Boone up with?
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness, this happens all the time, like usually we pair. It was in cabaret, that's it Like. How do we do this all the time?
Speaker 1:It's so strange being a close friend with him. One enjoys spending time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for benefit or favour.
Speaker 1:Well, yes, there's plenty of benefit and favour going on in. Master of the House isn't there? Yeah, they sing Lock Up your Belieses. A small travelling bag or suitcase? Yeah, I like this line Cunning little brain regular Voltaire. Voltaire was a French writer, historian and philosopher.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Oh good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, great song.
Speaker 1:Really good writer, historian and philosopher. Yeah, great song, really good. Yeah, we did enjoy doing that.
Speaker 2:It was just a bit like we can breathe. Yeah, and I think I think that's where because it is so dark and heavy that a lot, a lot of people then miss that. They are the villains of the story, you know, because you've got the, the comedy elements, that they just go. Oh, it's great, you know, and everybody needs a wee bit of light relief.
Speaker 3:But actually they are hateful, horrible people, I think it's so clever, though, isn't it because you're completely endeared to them, then, to begin with, yeah, like you're like oh gosh, no, you do. You do meet malin t first. Yes, um, and you're a bit like oh gosh, she's horrible yeah, but then you have to be endeared to them, because they're funny.
Speaker 3:They're the first thing that's not the first thing, but one of the first things that really makes you laugh, and so you have to be endeared to them. And then you have to check yourself for being endeared to them whenever you kind of find out what they're like and that's really good theatre when you have to look at yourself. Take a long, hard look at yourself to go longer, look at yourself yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:That's great. Any other learnings?
Speaker 1:and either of you I mean, I've loads, but I don't want to bore our listeners, to be quite honest with you, and I thought one, one uh thing that I thought was really interesting, uh in my life.
Speaker 3:I quite like that song in my life they sing.
Speaker 1:There are times when I catch in the silence a sigh of a faraway song. I think it's beautiful. Yeah, it's a gorgeous lyric, but Cosette grew up in a convent, so from the age of 8 to 14. And while Hugo doesn't actually describe Cosette's life in the convent, he spends a lot of time. Victor Hugo spends a lot of time describing a lot of things, but he spends a lot of time describing what life a lot of time describing a lot of things, but he spends a lot of time describing what life in the convent was was generally like.
Speaker 2:So is this when she was with Jean Valjean, she was still in a convent or she was in a convent, I don't know this oh okay.
Speaker 1:So he, yeah, okay, yeah, right okay um and one anecdote that uh Hugo shares is of a song played on a flip that the girls in the convent would have overheard, and they kept hearing the song played very faintly on the flute coming from a nearby building, and each of the girls started to imagine that a handsome prince was playing the song to them. It was actually just an old man.
Speaker 2:Okay, lovely, Lovely yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, actually it just kind of poo-pooed all over that beautiful lyric, haven't I Some Isle of Crete playing the flute? I just realised what I've done, but I think it's a beautiful lyric and a nice nod to the original text. Yeah, definitely, I mean. The main thing I learnt about this show was how to say the bloody names.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, there's a lot, and they are in French, in particular, like Congrefer, how to say the bloody names? Okay, yeah, there's a lot, and they are in French.
Speaker 1:There's a lot, in particular, congrefer, grontier, grontier. Angel Rat was hilarious for a long time. I'm still saying it wrong, am I Angel Rat?
Speaker 3:Angel.
Speaker 2:Rat.
Speaker 3:Angel Rat Angel.
Speaker 1:Rat.
Speaker 3:From my amazing friend who's in it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true. She told me that I am I was saying wrong.
Speaker 3:So, and I'm happily accepted to be. I did spanish at school. I did not do french and I'm with.
Speaker 1:We're just on three french music no I did four french musicals back to back oh, you really did, I did and I'm like obviously name is you did phantoms, phantoms french yeah, oh, my goodness is there any more french musicals left? I'm not sure maybe that is time to move on yeah musicals An.
Speaker 3:American of Paris.
Speaker 1:That's next, don't bother asking me. Do you have any?
Speaker 3:musical or lyrical angles, anything you learnt from Les Miserables. I just what I was going to say to you earlier when you asked me this, because I have to say I didn't do additional research. I'm very, very sorry.
Speaker 3:Like into the background of it, I suppose like it's'm very, very sorry, um, like into background, into the background of it, I suppose, like it's just, it's very, very deep. But what? What I learned from it? I suppose, because I did come at it at a very young age and then I got, I got very obsessed quite quickly. I suppose it's just the, the. What victor hugo's message was, and what hopefully audiences do leave learning, is that just just be kind and love the right way and and.
Speaker 3:I I do think that it is something I I'm particularly interested. Not particularly I love all the characters, but I, whenever I was reading the book, I remember really understanding Marius a lot more and I think um, in the in the book you kind of understand he's, he's very um. He was born his, he lived with his grandfather but he was a um, his dad was a like revolutionary kind of person and so he's kind of immediately in this kind of world where he can't make a decision because his grandfather was this amazing um, really, really rich guy what's?
Speaker 1:the word for that really really rich guy, really really rich guy aristocrat exactly, and the aristocracy, and so he was already divided and he didn't know how to how to?
Speaker 3:um, kind of go forward with that and then even in the students you can see that he's then he continues to be divided with his love for cassette yeah, he's not as into. You see this indecisive nature um in him and it's only really after everything happens and after he sees eponine die and all of that it's willing people know yeah our podcast about musical theater.
Speaker 1:And they don't know the story of lame yeah, it's like there's listen, there's a film out there yeah, there's plenty of concert versions.
Speaker 2:I mean Eppening dies in song. So I mean that's not a spoiler, that's true, that's true, that's true.
Speaker 3:And she sings about death yeah, she dies.
Speaker 2:She sings yeah, most of them, yeah, she dies. She's singing while she dies yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like really indecisive guy you can't make a decision, because this whole world, from from a very young age, has been completely divided and um, I think that's there. There's something I learned about whenever I read it and then since when, on watching it is kind of just like give yourself a break because I definitely couldn't find my way like whenever I was younger, and that I you know, and I suppose I learned that that it's okay to take your time to get to it and oh gosh, hopefully you don't have to watch one friend's time, but no, to get to there, but yeah like.
Speaker 3:I definitely related to feeling quite like where do I fit in all?
Speaker 2:of this is one thing to make the right decision. You feel that pressure from a young age, don't you like, because you've got pressure from outside society and whatever. But you're like, if I, if I go down this path, is it the wrong path, you know, or is it the right path, or am I going to be missing out on something else? But I suppose, just knowing that you can change at any point and you've got that freedom to change and it's okay to make mistakes and learn from them, and I suppose he just doesn't know, if he like goes one route, then he's cutting one side off, and if he goes that, then he's you know, yeah, it's just difficult.
Speaker 3:So yeah, I didn't my mind's very deep yeah, no, not at all.
Speaker 1:Just, you know, talking about the age thing and how you felt at that age, like what was lovely about it being an open edition and having, like you know, nearly 500 people to choose from like when I think of our students, like our students are so closely matched to the students and like all of those questions and you know that you just said like them questioning that themselves and saying, like some of them have really yeah, thought about it. You can say I nearly cried last night actually watching watching oh, yeah, yeah yeah, if someone in the audience is watching that bit yeah
Speaker 2:then they've got their money so then, in your opinion, kerry, like, what messages do you think the music class and the musical, because obviously some people can take lots of inspiration from music alone. And then the musical um, what does it and what things do you think the show is making? I know you've touched on slightly, but yeah it.
Speaker 3:I think at the heart of it all is love and the musical and the book is very much thinking considering God's love and you can take it whichever way that feels correct to you in my opinion, but it is just being able to think of others before you think of yourself.
Speaker 3:And we talked a lot, actually, about how we didn't want to villainize the poor, especially, at the end of the day, we didn't want to make them seem bad or evil and of course they're strong, they're absolutely strong but we didn't want to villainize them by any means. I think it's just the biggest message and it's something we talked about that is, and it's obvious to society now is that if you can just give somebody a break and if you can see the good in others, if you can forgive, then, like the not to be super twee, but the world would be a better place. And and the show finishes with a request to the audience. Well, in my opinion I don't know if it's been too, but the way we have done it, I've done it is that we are asking will you join in our crusade? You know, will you be strong and fight with me? And that's to the audience, because those messages are still very true in every country, in every community, you have to fight for the little guy.
Speaker 3:And it's just like that quote, you know, it's not the sin, it's not the person who commits the sin, it's basically people who've made them commit sin, who've pushed them into the darkness or who haven't let them get out of the darkness. And that is the main message for me and and it's shown really cleverly and really beautifully, especially through Valjean um. But. But then you've got like Javert, who is like the representation, I suppose, of like a politician or somebody like that, who is completely staunch, who can't see the grey area, and it's just showing that if he had a little bit more forgiveness, if he had any sort of flexibility, he would have had a better life, he would have turned out better. So it's not only like fight for us, but it's also fight for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it makes the ending so much more powerful.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Rather than just a big. Do you know what I mean Like?
Speaker 2:a big sing at the end of the musical where they're the whole way through.
Speaker 1:It has a reason for it. There's a message behind it. Yeah, it's really good.
Speaker 2:I always struggle when I was younger, with the fact that Jean Valjean says to Javert, just give me five minutes. You know, like it's not saying give me five minutes, but you know what I mean, I will be back. And I was always like he doesn't come back, he's lying to him, like. I always struggled with that until, you know, I got older and like was like why would he go back? Like why would he? You know, what he did in the first place wasn't wrong, so he doesn't have to give himself up. But I was always like, because I suppose I was younger and I was understanding that you have to follow the rules and following the rules are the right thing to do. So I was like should I just try and take him back to jail? So? But obviously, like listening to it and watching it and understanding it more with like slightly more adult eyes, you could be like you know it's you have, you have to see it as a bigger picture and everything.
Speaker 1:But I just that's why I think I was talking about earlier yeah, oh, my goodness oh my goodness, yeah, yeah, imagine being javert jean valjean performing the confrontation. A cameraman touch what's in the door. Oh my goodness, oh my goodness, I thought they were going to collapse so tell us about that, that experience?
Speaker 3:I was. I was stressing them.
Speaker 2:I knew beforehand yes, that's true, we knew it was coming, yeah so tell us about that experience, about being in the same room, breathing the same air as this person that is that's given you permission to um, to take this, this work, and make it your own I was petrified.
Speaker 3:I didn't stop being petrified until the end of the night. I yeah I think a lot of people really want to relish that opportunity and really love to show off. I was so scared I had to take a day off work and I think that was just a self-discipline. I forgot. You took that day off work. That's right. Honestly, I was so nervous. I had to make sure that I wasn't going to say anything stupid or put my foot in it, but it was amazing and for the cast.
Speaker 3:I think they, while terrified, loved it in the end. Cause, like what?
Speaker 1:a yeah absolutely yeah so and he left and I felt reassured in that he was like have fun, have fun with it, you know, do your thing, enjoy it. You know it's all there in the words is what a?
Speaker 3:lot of you know.
Speaker 1:Like Cameron, he said it's all there in the words. And then Killian uh Donnelly and Bradley Jaden came in the next week or like a couple of nights later and they said exactly the same. It's all there in front of you, just have fun with that the words are the important bit.
Speaker 3:Yes, storytelling first, and I love that and I just said it and I did kind of cheekily be like you so did she was a cheeky, you'd have been here like two minutes ago, those words literally just came out of my mouth and I was like they literally did.
Speaker 1:Oh my god, tara, it's Cameron McIntosh. Sorry, sir, cameron McIntosh.
Speaker 2:I love that, though, because when we got the chance to obviously speak to Raymond and he was saying the same thing about you know, like it seems like an amazing company whenever you're part of that layman's family, because they have such a respect for the original work you know Victor Hugo's um book, and then obviously turning it into this like masterpiece, and he just goes, it's all there, like you just see what's written, you feel it, and you then, you know, emanate that like out to the audience.
Speaker 1:So and it was really lovely of him, like it happened, because he was in Belfast and you know, the 40th anniversary worldwide arena tour was opening in Belfast that very week and they had come to Belfast on the Monday, I think, and they were teching it that week and he had what? Half an hour between finishing some tech rehearsal and starting like a dress rehearsal and he nipped around the corner to see us, which was really like mean, it's camera man, he doesn't need to do that at all, but it was really nice.
Speaker 3:It was really really amazing and yeah, it was amazing. But yeah, I was a bit brave, did I not do it in a cute way?
Speaker 1:oh, no you you never did do anything in a cute way, to be honest, kerry, you like you couldn't offend. Uh, no, not at all. Like it was very, very cute, but it was also hilarious and it was also you kind of going. Do you hear that?
Speaker 2:like you need to listen to me, I don't know what I'm talking about and okay, through this process, um, and particularly maybe, like the addition process, um, what has this taught you? Like? What have you learned?
Speaker 1:the talent first of all. Here, like we, we double clap, cast our front lineup because we could amazing you know, and it certainly gives us a lot of security in that you know, if Jean Valjean, like, is sick, heaven forbid. Like you know, we have another really amazing Jean Valjean, and both casts are incredible, really amazing and there's no comparison.
Speaker 3:They do like it's so brilliant. They're just both so strong and yeah, and I hope they feel that as well, because they're both really really fabulous, both sets of cast. They're amazing. So nobody's got a the short straw no matter what show you're coming to if you're coming. You do not have the short straw.
Speaker 1:No, both casts are incredible and and gracious, like a few people have gone. Have you got a like you know friends, have you got a favorite? Like yeah, and it's like like literally no, you couldn't, yeah you can't no you know, tell them apart, like and what's been lovely? And carrie was so clear about this from the word go. She was like no carbon copy of each other, like because they were called to all rehearsals. So even if we were working with cast a principals, cast b were there do you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:And I was like don't compare yourself to each other, don't copy what your counterpart. Does you know, do you? Know you've got to do your version.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely. Well, I'm big into that, aren't?
Speaker 1:I, you're massive into it, but I, the cynic in the room, was going. If I was sitting here, I probably like they do something really good. I'm probably just going to copy them.
Speaker 3:Do you know what I?
Speaker 1:mean To be fair they really haven't done that because you've instilled that in them.
Speaker 2:It's like an understudy. You know performing on the West End, you know for the first time they're going well. This is maybe my opportunity to show what I could do with this part.
Speaker 3:It's just so lovely to them and it should hopefully feel really authentic to them because of whatever's happened in their lives and whatever they feel about certain things, and hopefully that will come across and that's something I'm very big into. But it's been really fun to like. I love seeing the different interpretations.
Speaker 1:And yeah, that's one thing I think I've learned about myself is that I'm all.
Speaker 3:I'm not. I was. It's so easy to give notes if you've got one cast. See, when you give notes when there's two casts, I'm like, but if I didn't give you that note, it's not because you didn't. You didn't do anything wrong. Yeah, I don't think they were comparing themselves because, yeah, I want them to feel both sets, to feel really celebrated, and I, I overthink it, as you can probably tell. I overthink it and over talk it.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, did you learn anything from the like edition?
Speaker 3:put like right back to the beginning, oh gosh yeah, I learned that my attention span lasts longer than I thought it did you did a lot, yeah, and it was very intense as well, wasn't it yeah?
Speaker 3:no, I don't think you would accept that my attention span. Sometimes I had to get up and walk around the room. Not, but yeah, I I did have to. If we had like a wee two minute reprieve. I had to like be up out of my seat, but um, we're like go for a walk around the building. It was intense. We hear the same song that many times. But I think, as you said, we're just saturated in here with incredible talent and that's something I'm sure I learned more, but I can't think of any Did.
Speaker 2:I Did you yeah. It was long but it was, it was incredible, yeah, yeah no, that's, and I suppose that people respected as well that this was a once in a lifetime opportunity, so whose guide needed to do your due diligence and make sure that you were welcoming and making sure that everybody felt like they had this opportunity and that you were taking it just as seriously as in any other audition process. So, um, I mean like kudos to you guys for going through all that just a voice.
Speaker 1:It's so important that you get the actor as well.
Speaker 3:That's almost more important than the voice.
Speaker 1:It's like it's like okay, now forget that, you can sing, you've got the words. You've got the intention behind the words.
Speaker 3:Now forget that you have a voice like that's almost like secondary to the whole thing. Yeah, yeah, definitely, it's just yeah, stop thinking about the vocal, because it's and that's can be the hardest, especially in some group you can't watch someone thinking about how they, because that can be the hardest, especially in song three. You can't watch someone thinking about how they sound.
Speaker 1:That's very difficult to watch. What do you call it? Speech quality? Speech quality yeah, it's in your notes. I love what you say. Speech quality oh, I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, just consider the words and think of them as you would say them, as opposed to how you think they should be sung, because you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:If you were to perform in my means do you have a role that you would want to play, gavroche, I knew you'd say that.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, because I was going to say I love him so much he's amazing.
Speaker 3:I know he's so good Like him so much he's amazing he's, so he's so good. No, I keep like what is not to like about him? He's not whingy, he's, and yet he's like he's. He's hard, he's tough, he's funny he's like really cute.
Speaker 1:Yes, spoiler no yeah, like they all died um, he's just great I just love him.
Speaker 3:I think it's so cool to have this tiny voice of reason yeah who, like, if you, you know, depending on whatever way you look at it is he like the mascot for for the um per like I just think he's such a cool character, I love him, but I guess I I mean I'm too old, too old to be gavroche I'll have to give madame t a go years and years later, not because I'm too young for it now, but because I'm doing madame t l d to naria, there we go.
Speaker 1:That's sorted, an idiot. It's not that I haven't enjoyed the process, but I think after this run I probably won't listen to.
Speaker 2:They miss for very I mean, you've definitely submerged yourself in it somebody was singing it in work and I was like oh, please, I was like do you see how many times you've listened to that?
Speaker 3:you need to quadruple and times it by a thousand. I can't hear it anymore, although I did say the other day that I think I knew every word, and then we were watching it and we had a really bitty bit and maybe some pathway came on. I was like I do not know it.
Speaker 2:So let's go back, just because we usually do like stand ovation. But you've kind of said about your, your favorite character, there. But do you remember the first time you came across Sleigh Maids and what your experience of that was and how it made you feel?
Speaker 3:I think I do so. I said that I played Malin T whenever I was 15.
Speaker 1:Did I say that.
Speaker 3:No I did whenever I was 15. Did I say that? No, no, I did whenever I was 15, but um, so that wasn't actually my first experience of of les mis before that beaver took a trip to watch somebody somebody else's, I can't remember where it was. It was like balamina, I was gonna say somewhere really far away in a minibus and we all, like, went down um to watch it. I can't remember where it was, but it was because we knew we were going to do it, um, like the summer after or something like that.
Speaker 3:And I remember being like I have never seen a musical like this. I have never understood, not understood a musical as much, but like it's, it is totally different to anything that I had seen in the past, in that, like I was completely immersed in it and, um, the characters were so strong and the characters were so um, told so much of the story and each character was so amazingly um built within the story and the contrast between them and everything. I probably didn't think that when I was 14, but I remember thinking I've never seen anything like this before and I'm obsessed with this and I was obsessed with it. And then, whenever I got to play Madam T at 15. I was like I've peaked. I should have been Gavroche at 15. That's really. But I know it was incredible. It was so fun and the, the friends that I made then doing lenis for the first time was just now.
Speaker 3:They're like still best friends of mine now I love that yeah, and I I'm not sure that was the show or whether it's just like doing the show together, but yeah, um, it was so fun and I remember at 15 being like this is a really important story yeah and I think that's really fun as well Like and feeling like you are doing something good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, but to know that as well, that age, yeah, that shows the power in the show, doesn't?
Speaker 2:it yeah. And what about you, Timothy?
Speaker 1:I remember being taken down to see it in the point.
Speaker 2:We were there together. Oh, is that we went together? Well, we didn't go together, we just. But you were there at the same time. We were there at the same. I think we were actually like a couple of rows behind you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I didn't know what I was going to see. Like it wouldn't have mattered what I mean, I'd have gone to see a musical theatre opening of an envelope, as long as it was musical theatre. But I think you're right in that it wasn't all tits and teeth and, you know, like high kicks and the musicals I probably have been exposed to the most do you? Know, what I mean and I also, to be fair, remember, like Colin Wilkinson's performance of Jean Valjean, like his voice was just stunning and such a big, like the point in Dublin was so big yeah it was packed and it was a big event.
Speaker 2:I remember even just being excited about going down to see it. But yeah, I can still. If I close my eyes and think back, then I can visualise.
Speaker 1:I close my eyes and think back, then I can visualise Colm, just with this spotlight singing Bring Him Home but then I also do remember when it was that Stageco decided to do like an excerpt from it one year and I was like BORING like this is the worst section you could possibly do, it's so boring. And then I think that this stage will do it again many, many years later and I'm not sure it was?
Speaker 1:it was your sister, caitlin was playing the dying epony oh really, I don't remember that like I remember a little ball of rain and I was singing Marius random and um the piano player who just so happened to be my father oh I do like four octaves lower, yes, and she's not there.
Speaker 2:And she was like oh, that's me, oh, my goodness, I forgot about that. And did she not like I think there's a video of it and she like gives your dad the eyes she's lying on the floor like dying, to the side and going.
Speaker 1:What are you doing?
Speaker 2:oh my goodness, that's so funny, that won't happen no production no yes, I was the same, so I remember going down. But my first like memory of it was my mum and dad, um, went to their honeymoon to London and they went to the concierge and said, um, oh, is there any musicals on? My dad's not a big musical fan, but my mum was, and um the concierge said oh, you could go see Les Mis. It's about the French Revolution. And my mum went absolutely not, I'm not going to see that. So they went to watch Basil the Great Mouse Detective instead, the Disney movie, which is so cute. And then I think my mum was like I missed out on the opportunity to see Les Mis. This is awful. So this was a big deal. Let's go into the point.
Speaker 2:Remember, um it feeling very long. I was like at the interval, I was like we going home, like no, that's just the interval. Oh, my gosh and Caitlin. So it's four and a half years between me and my sister, um, and she literally stayed awake until Castle on the Cloud and then fell asleep. And then she fell asleep and I just remember my dad being tortured, being like, oh my goodness, we are here. Um, so, yeah, it was. Uh, that's one of mine. But then I got that cd and, um, we are now in my family home, so in my bedroom which is not my son's bedroom sitting by the window and like reenacting Little Fall of Rain, and like I can do that song to that CD, breaths and all you know exactly when she goes. Like I was obsessed, like, and I just closed the door at night and I was like, oh, I'm just one day I'm going to be Eppening and I'm going to die the most gross little death so you had the role you played.
Speaker 2:You had that was yeah, that Eppening would be my role, but um and then, yeah, like I said, just any time I was away, going, going and seeing it, but it just always made me feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:I just I'm like, oh, I just need a little bit of happiness in my life you mentioned eponine that was eponine that was another kind of like learning process for me, just like peeling her layers off yeah she's often, very often, played the victim massively so, and you totally changed my thoughts on her.
Speaker 3:Oh, good, good, hopefully that translates.
Speaker 1:Because she's not a victim. She's not a victim, she's strong.
Speaker 3:She's streetwise, she's cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she is cool.
Speaker 3:I do, I really like her. I think she's a really interesting character. She's also, like you see, her real spoiled at the start, mm like you see her real spoiled at the start, and we've definitely showed that off as well. And and then, because you know, then it's difficult like she she also then had to like was pushed out on the streets and had to, in ways, mature very, very quickly because she had to be streetwise and she had to survive but in in emotional maturity, she, she is, I would.
Speaker 3:in my opinion, she is a little bit stunted and then that's why she has this imaginary world that she lives in um, and she is, like, emotionally much more immature, and then maybe that's why she can't understand how this, you know how when her love is completely unrequited, and then, obviously, at the end. I know you just hurt her, but she is selfless then in the end because you see her be really spoiled and selfish and hate. Cassette and stuff, and then she sacrifices herself for him and she gets to die in his arms.
Speaker 2:She can't be with him, but she was with him until the end. There is some bit of hope there for her soul, I suppose.
Speaker 3:Victor Hugo describes her as a flower that could never, that never got the opportunity to bloom. Something like that. Again, that's not a direct quote, but it's something.
Speaker 1:Close enough.
Speaker 2:Okay, so to round it all off, then, why do you think that this wonderful musical has lasted 40 years? What a good question, uh, cameron mackens no, I think for loads of reasons.
Speaker 3:Um, those the messages are, I think the biggest thing is the messaging in. It is as relevant as it is, as it was then, today, and I think, sadly, I suppose that will be true forever, until we make proper change in the world and the messages will always be relevant to a society that hasn't quite perfected itself. Is that the nicest way?
Speaker 3:of putting that, and especially like you look at whatever is going on in other places in the world, like it's just to love and to love and to love, and that is it's the the soul of it. Um, I also do think like that with, because it's so character driven and so storytelling. So, so into the storytelling of it. I think that it can be fresh quite easily, like you don't need to look, you don't need to reim, like you don't need to re-imagine it all, you don't need to. And obviously they have, they've created a different version of it, which is incredible and everything. But because it's so character led, you know, you just see someone else's interpretation of Valjean and it's completely different story or it's a completely different show.
Speaker 3:So I think that's why I think mainly the messaging, but I think because it's so well written in the first place, the characters are so well created in the first place, the story is so amazing that I think every time you see it it could feel different, you could get something different from it. You could leave thinking that Javert is a baddie and then another one thinking that he was right all along. He should have got Roger on the list, yeah, so yeah. Have got that one, yeah, so yeah. I think that's why that's a great answer.
Speaker 1:Love it.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:We normally have like a standing ovation. Do you have a standout moment in the show?
Speaker 3:In our one.
Speaker 1:It could be in our one, no no, no, don't do that, don't do that Is there, there, like a part of the musical, where you go oh see, when you get to that bit, it gives me the rules, it gives me the rules um, I am a, um, I was gonna say that, but I really love lots of other bits too.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's hard um give me your top one, two or three yeah, maybe on the basic side, but I do love one day more, because there are a thousand stories being told, yeah, and that is just a melting pot of them all, and I think that's really incredible where you see all of these stories coming together and and I mean it's tricky to work out how you, how you can physically actually see them all yeah, I mean, you take it, you don't have a trap door.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's tricky to work out how you can physically actually see them all. Yeah, I mean, you take it. You don't have a trap door, you don't have a revolving stage.
Speaker 1:What.
Speaker 3:So One Day More is amazing. I love ABC Cafe. Yes, I bet.
Speaker 1:I love it. I think that's my new favourite. I don't know coming into this, like working on it. I would have said ABC Cafe, because I sometimes find it it dips a bit for some for some reason yeah but no, yeah, that's up there for me now as well, yeah and I did really, really used to love the confrontation it's nothing to do with our cast.
Speaker 3:They're absolutely amazing, but I think we have done that song a lot more than we have done. I think I've done that song more than I've seen my husband in the last way. That's yeah, I could believe we've done it many, many times, but it is still amazing, like I think it is so amazing. They do it amazingly. But I think that would have been one of my favourites and I think it will be one of my favourites we're on, we're in a bit of a toxic relationship the confrontation you just need a bit of a break, yeah
Speaker 1:very good. Well, a new feature for our podcast this year is what would patty do? So obviously, the the legend, the icon, that is patty latone, where we give each other two options and you have to choose which would you rather. Okay, so can we give Kerry?
Speaker 2:a hundred percent what?
Speaker 1:would Paddy's do. So what would Paddy do? Would you rather and I love this because you've been involved in both these shows would you rather deal with technical issues like the infamous rotating set failure of Les Mis or the chandelier fall in Phantom of the Opera? You know had to give her props yeah, yeah, I love it yeah, yeah, would I rather deal with what yes what would you rather deal with the, the rotating uh stage, not or the failure of the chandelier chandelier not falling oh my gosh that is so hard.
Speaker 3:I think, both of them send you to an early grave. They really would. But I think I could deal with the chandelier field a bit better. Good choice, I think, because it only happens the chandelier feel a bit better good choice, I think, because it only happens once, whereas if the revolve is broken, when does it get back to being not broken?
Speaker 1:that's a good answer, well done yeah, thank you yeah thank you so much, because obviously you are no, thank you no no, thank you, and we really hope this is not the last time that you're on the pod.
Speaker 2:So thank you so much for joining us. So, yes, folks, hopefully you enjoyed this lovely special episode of season three and, um, we will see you one day more. Oh, that was good.
Speaker 1:Oh, that was great.
Speaker 2:See you one day more, see you tomorrow. Bye.
