Musical Lyrical Lingo
We're Musical Lyrical Lingo!
Join Tim and Lj who delve deep into the wonderful world of musical theatre and more importantly the lessons they have learned from different musicals.
Join them as they explore some of the greatest musicals ever created, from the classics to the new and exciting shows that continue to teach us something new.
So whether you're a seasoned fan of the stage or a newcomer, this podcast is for you.
So sit back, relax and get ready to immerse yourself in the world of musical theatre.
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Musical Lyrical Lingo
Nico Juber Breathing New Life into Musicals
What if millennials aren't really killing musicals but are instead breathing new life into them? Join us as we sit down with the exceptional Nico Juber, the creative mind behind "Millennials are Killing Musicals." Nico shares the surprising recognition her work has received from the Broadway Women Fund and offers an inside look at the creative process that aims to connect and resonate with audiences across generations. Her love for the UK weather might be unexpected, but it mirrors the refreshing and humorous storm her musical has stirred in the hearts of theater lovers everywhere.
Our discussion takes a deeply personal turn as we recount the transformative journeys from aspiring writer to musical creator. From college days in Boston to unexpected life detours, hear the stories of how a stable career in marketing and tech gave way to a revived passion for music and storytelling. The evolution from humorous "mom songs" to a full-fledged musical about modern life and social media unfolds, revealing the pivotal moments that marked a turning point in this creative journey.
Not just about the creation, we also uncover what it truly takes to bring a musical to life. Nico provides insights into the challenges of composing, with anecdotes of industry idols and the critical role of a producer. The episode is rich with stories of collaboration and the thrill of live audience reactions, as well as a sneak peek into future endeavors like workshops and a hopeful world premiere for "Millennials." This episode promises laughter, inspiration, and a profound appreciation for the art of musical theater.
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Hello and welcome to Musical Lyrical Lingo. We're your hosts, tim and LJ.
Speaker 2:Today and every week we will be discussing musicals, but specifically what they taught us, but not today. So back at the beginning of season two, we set each other a challenge, a lovely musical challenge, of diving into unfamiliar scores, your scores. But little did we know that along this adventure it would lead to an extraordinary connection with a musical that we both have fallen in love with and that has resonated deeply, especially with me. Today we are thrilled to welcome the incredibly talented Nico Gibber, who is the wonderful mind behind this musical. Um, millennials are Killing Musicals. And we're going to ask her that key question are Millennials really killing musicals? So hey, nico, thank you so much welcome.
Speaker 3:Thank you for having me. I'm so honored to be here. I'm blushing from the praise, thank you.
Speaker 1:We're honored to have you on the podcast. Where are you joining us from today?
Speaker 3:I am in not sunny Los Angeles California.
Speaker 1:Oh, I suppose it can't be sunny every day, can it?
Speaker 3:I actually. I love this, so I am. My dad is British, so I go to the UK a lot. I love like dreary weather, so I'm very weird in that way, so this is perfect for me. I'm in my element and thriving. Do you feel at home?
Speaker 2:Well, definitely come to Northern Ireland, because we are constantly wet and grey outside.
Speaker 3:I love it.
Speaker 1:We have to work hard to not be miserable yeah, that's why we love musicals.
Speaker 2:So you were recently named a woman to watch by broadway women fund. Is that right? I was yeah. How amazing. Does that. Fail to read your name on that list? It was incredible.
Speaker 3:it was a total surprise. I got an email about it when it happened, uh year, and I didn't know any of the people involved. I had no idea who nominated me and so that was. You know, sometimes you push and you push and you push, and then other times the universe is just kind of doing things that suddenly appear like how did this happen? But it felt really good to have somebody notice the things that I was working on and, um, it made a really big difference for me just in terms of how seriously I was taken, and the timing couldn't have been better, because I think it was like around the time of the off-broadway run of Millennials yeah, um that, that's so exciting so exciting and you also are winner of.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, you wrote another musical called winner. Is that right? Yes, you are winner of a rigged high school election, but no, yes, yes. So it was millennials are killing musicals that we first um heard of you. So, as I said in the intro, we set each other a challenge. So Timothy had given me a list of five musicals and your musical was on that, and as soon as I hit play, I was like I love this, I understand it, I get it, and, much to Timothy's annoyance, I constantly go on about how we are millennials and we are great and millennials rule the world, and as a mom, I just felt like it spoke to me so much.
Speaker 2:So I just want to say thank you before we really get into anything, I just thank you so much for making a musical that really spoke to loads of different parts of me.
Speaker 1:I was thinking, nico, when we set our uh, set each other this challenge. I love listening to new, new musicals. I get a bit bored sometimes of here, you know, hearing the same, you know the same soundtracks over and over again. So I I make it my mission to go out of my way and try and find like new material. And I came across your musical and as soon as I heard it it was unbelievable, because there's a lot out there that's pretty woeful. And then I heard yours and I went oh my god, there's hope for the future of musical theatre. Oh my, lauren is mental with being a millennial and like that's all she ever wrote on about. And I was like I am putting this in my list of five musicals. I know for a fact she is going to pick it and then we can talk about it on our podcast. And that's exactly what happened. So thank you for writing such a brilliant musical oh my gosh thank you and mom to mom too.
Speaker 3:I appreciate that. I mean I I didn't really know what I was doing when I started writing six years ago and I just kind of started like dumping truths out and it evolved into this whole thing. I mean it's been a huge journey but, yeah, I wanted to. I, ultimately, as a writer, I want to have things that people connect to and find their way into, even if they're not moms or women. Or I think that's something I'm really proud of with this show is that, while it is through the lens of motherhood and the three Well, really all the main characters are moms you can find your way in through social media. You can find your way in through the millennial condition, like all of those things, and I also identify. I mean I am like poster child for millennial. At this point, I also identify, I mean.
Speaker 2:I am like poster child for millennial at this point because it's like my brand. I have to talk about it. But humor to the musical, and is that something that you wanted to do whenever you first started writing it? Did you want to have a clear balance or because you were drawing on real life?
Speaker 3:it just kind of turned out that way um, yeah, it's a great question and I also just want to comment on I love the sneaky. I'm gonna put it in the list and, like I know she's, you know her so well. I I am the worst because I don't write things with a plan, I just start writing. It is the like if you read any of the books and I've read them since then like once I started and was like, oh, I'm taking this seriously. I went and read, you know, the Stephen Schwartz book and the all the Stevens Sondheim books and all of them and I was just like, oh, I didn't really know what I was doing. I didn't have an I Want song or this or that. So I really was just writing heart and humor at the beginning.
Speaker 3:But I would say, if I look across everything that I've written and now I have a small body of work of a short musical that I wrote that won a challenge for NAMT back in 2020 and and winner, it's all like well, the short musical is not a comedy, but it has comedy in it. But I would say like comedy with heart is kind of the thing that I just end up writing and I think part of that is just who I am as a writer and part of that is the worlds that I want to live in. And when you are working on a show for six plus years and you know 10, I mean you hear about these stories like 10, 13 year developments. I want to live in fun, joyful worlds that are like life affirming and exciting and people can have a good time with. And so much respect to people that write really heavy material. That's just mentally I can't live with those characters in my head all the time.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so are musicals like putting what you do as your career, are musicals a very important part to your life? Do you enjoy musicals Like, do you go and see musicals? Is it a big thing for you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I mean I. So I now identify fully as a musical writer and this is what I do in my. This is my full-time job, which is like a wild thing to say writing, producing, and I, you know I do some like dramaturgical stuff for other writers and I I did work in marketing for a long time and so I will sometimes take like side gigs for marketing type things or branding or strategy, but I'm like full musical theater now, which is such a wild thing to say. But I so I see shows all the time. I try to see as much as I can here in Los Angeles and we actually have a great scene that's growing and growing, which you know I'm excited to explore and be a part of even more.
Speaker 3:And then in New York, I go to New York probably three, four plus times a year just for like meetings or if I have something happening like a presentation or a song at 54 Below, just that I can go, take meetings and you know, and also see shows, because so much of I need to see things, like I with my own work, I have to see it, I have to hear it. I don't imagine it in my head at all Like I need to literally have actors do that, and the same thing with other shows. Like I need to go see musicals and like, oh, that's a great idea, what a great you know, oh, having the narrator on the side of the stage or you know, whatever it is. It gives you just general ideas about like how to stage thing. Or well, I'm not staging, so I'm not the director, but like how things can be made theatrical. Um, and I've also had stuff in London and worked in London and so I try to see shows out there too. Um, but these are, it's wild, these are business trips. Like it's just like my job.
Speaker 3:I say my kids are like you're seeing another show. I'm like it's my job, I gotta go see shows. Um, but yeah, and I grew up also with parents who have written musicals and write musicals. So, um, they wrote, uh, there's a Gilligan's Island musical that my parents wrote that gets done in late, it's available for licensing, uh, broadway licensing, and it gets done all over the place. And, um, and they have a Brady Bunch musical that's been in development for a long time. My whole childhood I remember like development of a musical. So this was like kind of normal, that this is a thing you did, but I didn't realize that it was something that I could do until I had my millennial existential crisis in my 30s and kids and was like, well, what am I doing? And you know, was trying to do the corporate thing and was just kind of, um, all of this was pent up in me.
Speaker 1:So that's amazing what do you enjoy most about musicals? Then, when you go to see shows, what, what, what are you looking for? What do you enjoy most from them?
Speaker 3:that's a great question. I feel like, yeah, I feel like, yeah, being happy and coming out uplifted I love, but I would say, like the thing that makes musical theater so special, and like this is true about all theater, but I think with musicals because they're so complicated. First of all, I love when I'm not dissecting a show while I'm watching it, like if I am just sucked into it and like in the world of it and we're all experiencing this together. And it's like when all the elements work, where it's like lighting and just, and because I know how complicated it is now like when it's all just working. It is is magic. I feel like we can all agree like nothing else that exists. So that's probably my favorite thing and that you do that, and it's never the same and things can go wrong, and like set pieces don't work, like we, that's what we love like anything can happen in theater. So, um, yeah, and like happy, fun shows that I feel like you know at the end, like wow, theatre is amazing, like this is all worth it.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I agree with you. I like stuff that I can go away going. Oh, yeah, it had a bit of a message, but I also feel good for it, Like anything that's really too deep, I struggle with a little bit just because it scares me.
Speaker 1:I just love the escapism you can get from those couple of hours in the theatre. It's really exciting. So did you dabble with? You know writing like the writing process as you were growing up, and then, when you had your crisis, as you call it, did you then go right? I know what I'm doing. How did that journey into writing start? Uh, musicals, uh, come about for you yeah, it's never linear.
Speaker 3:Um, so I I've always been a songwriter, um, I would say a pop songwriter, and then I've always been a writer, mostly comedy. Uh, I mean, when I was in high school I was in, you know, musicals and like you know, the school musical. It was a pick, a little talk, a little lady and like the music man and all of that, I think I had written some like little plays and stuff and I directed one, like I was always interested in it. And then my senior project in high school, I recorded an album and it was all like original songs and when I went to college I would play shows like me and a guitar around. I went to school in Boston, so like coffee shops, and that's how a lot of people sort of knew me and the and I was still writing. I was writing like sitcom spec scripts, like you know, of the. I have like an office that I wrote Like just you know it's a fake If you don't know, it's like a fake episode that you're trying to kind of pitch and practice writing. But I never put it together, like it didn't occur to me to put it together. And when I was 19 and in college I was, I think, yeah, junior or it was the end of my sophomore year. Oh my God, I can't, I don't know how. I don't remember this.
Speaker 3:I was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, so, um, cancer, when I was 19. And then that summer went through, uh, chemo, and then I had radiation and I I was not missing school. I was like I'm going back to school, I'm doing my radiation, like I'm driving myself in every day, had a handicap placard and all that and, um, cause I was just I don't know, I did not want to miss anything and wanted to just get back to life. So that put me kind of on a different path, because I was faced with the very real issue of in the US, you can't get health insurance. At that point, you could not get health insurance unless you had a job and you could only stay on your parents for a certain amount of time. So I was like, well, I can't afford to be an artist because I need stability and health insurance.
Speaker 3:And I had always been good at kind of like the marketing and tech and I worked for Apple while I was my like that last year of school as a campus representative, because I was like super into, you know, like Apple and Macs and all that, like super nerdy, very, very nerdy, and I kind of just like put it all the music and the writing, like I just stopped, like I was like, okay, I'm gonna need to get a, really. And I was majoring in philosophy and psychology, like I don't even know which is actually perfect for the theater industry. But, um, I, yeah, I. So I graduated and then I went to work in high tech. So I worked for Apple for a couple of years. I worked. I was at Adobe, uh, for 13 years.
Speaker 3:I mean this was like a real career in marketing, um, and enterprise marketing account. I mean I can, you know, hang with anyone and talk about that world, but I just, and I had kids and I didn't know if I could have kids. I got married and I got told for a long time we don't know if you can have kids because of the chemo. And so I did and was very lucky and I'm very thankful to you know to have them and have that experience for myself. But it was six years ago when they were, you know, in I think it was like preschool and kindergarten and it was pre-pandemic and I like actually I was between a job.
Speaker 3:I had left a job and I was starting another job and I had this time to myself for the first time in I don't even know how long I mean any mom knows this like they're three and five. They're not in the house. We had just gotten a piano. I had a guitar because I play both piano and guitar, and we had a piano because we were trying to get my older daughter she was going to start playing and I just sat and I just started writing and I was like I don't know what I'm writing, I don't know what it is, and I started writing these kind of like funny mom songs. Like I wrote one about Marie Kondo when, like all of that Marie Kondo stuff was happening and people were like, oh, these are funny, you should do more of it.
Speaker 3:And then I started I think I wrote Jake's mom, cause there was a mom at the school and I was like what is your deal? And then I'm like I was like what if you followed her? Like what is her life? Like Maybe she's getting divorced? And so then I started my brain just started like oh, but like who's following her? And like is it an influencer? And what does this mean.
Speaker 3:So I literally just like went with it and because I didn't know what I was doing, I there were no expectations. I thought maybe I was writing like little sketches or a web series or whatever it was. And then it sort of told me what it was. It was like, no, this is a musical. Because I kept writing, I'm like, oh, and then this could happen, and then this person could show up, could show up, and so in the first edit or the first draft of it there with millennials, there was no, uh, the filters characters who, um, ended up in the show. I can talk about a little bit more, but the first name of the show was filters and it was like kind of about like who we, you know, project ourselves to be and um, so that a lot of all. But but I truly like really had no idea what I was doing or what I was getting myself into. And yeah and I.
Speaker 3:So I finished a draft of it and was like, ok, well, I'll do like a local production and like that'll be fun. And I had a couple of friends come over. I have a like a plaque on the wall. I don't know, I can't move right there. That's like the first table reading and everybody signed it. That was in 2019 and everyone's like, oh my god, I can't wait to see what happens with this show. Like, um, and I'm like what do you mean? I wrote it happens with the show and I just like again being in LA.
Speaker 3:Um, you write a script. It gets thrown on the pile of like burning scripts, like, and then you write an album and it gets thrown on the pile of burning albums. But you write a musical in LA. There's just it's not the town necessarily for it. So, um, I got a lot of encouragement really early of like, yeah, like, keep this is.
Speaker 3:And so I kept doing table readings and, um, I did, uh, one reading that, uh, the head of the ASCAP musical theater department, um, his name is Michael Kirker. He came and then invited me to his office to give me notes. Um, and I remember him saying to me I walk in and it's like, you know, it's like pictures, pictures of Lin-Manuel Miranda and all these people like, oh my God, like what am I doing? I started doing this four months ago, like I have no idea what I'm doing, and he was like I would not like be giving you notes if I didn't think this was good, right. And so he was like you know, this is how Jerry Herman wrote the end of songs. This is like what you need to have. Like just giving me this like gold information, like go get the Sondheim books, go get this.
Speaker 3:And I'm like I love a challenge, great. And everyone's saying this is the hardest thing you can do. Don't write a musical, it's so hard. I'm like I love hard things. I'm so. The more you tell me this is the hardest thing I could do, the more I want to do it. And but yeah, that's kind of the journey to it.
Speaker 3:And at that point I didn't really know like where it was going to go or what was going to happen, and especially, it was right before the pandemic. So I just was like wow, I found this thing that I really love, that combines all of my skill sets in this very strange way of writing and songwriting and marketing and business, cause I, as I've learned, when you have a show, you have to treat it like a small business, um, and like you know, and the producing side of things. So it was just like it lights up all the parts of my brain like how can I go back to doing anything else after this and, um, yeah, that that's what I mean. There's a lot that's happened. That happened, obviously, between 2019 and today, but that was where it started and, um, I always like joke that it always starts with like a bunch of friends and some pizza, like in a garage, and then you know you're like what, what have I done? What am I doing?
Speaker 1:so love it but to get your foot through the door in that meeting, like did you like ingrain that advice that you were given?
Speaker 3:like yes, yes, yes and no, I mean he, he, he's such a nice guy and so supportive of writers and um, but yeah it, it's the. I'm trying to think, if I can't remember what it was, if it was like Tick, tick, boom, or like one of those where, like you just see, like those little, like you know, when Sondheim shows up to Jonathan Larson's, or like those little moments where, like somebody gives you I've had so many of those because no one is ever going to say, oh, this is it, we're going to Broadway, like you're the one, and I just I mean, maybe that does happen. I certainly haven't seen it really with my peers, and it's usually like what you see with Jonathan Larson in that movie, that you're like fighting and clawing like your way through this process, and you kind of subsist on these, like little nuggets of like hey, I think that you have something here, um, but yeah, he told me to make everything perfect rhyme and I was like um, I'm gonna learn about it but probably not my style.
Speaker 1:You were saying there people are saying why would you write a musical? It's the hardest thing in the world. What? What do you think the hardest part of writing a musical is? Or, from your experience, what? What is the hardest bit or the most frustrating part of that process?
Speaker 3:um, I well, okay, I don't want to like ruin hadestown. Have you guys seen Hadestown? I'm hoping or maybe you know it, okay, I guess I can ruin it. It's like a 3000 or how many thousands of year old story, like is it? But when I saw, I saw Hadestown in London, it was my first time seeing it and I was like this is literally what it's like to write a musical at the end where you're like wandering in the dark and you don't know and you're like I'm gonna give up, but you could be literally this far from like accomplishing your goal and everyone else is like don't give up.
Speaker 3:Don't give up, but you are, you don't know, because you don't know where the end is. And I think that's the hardest part about all of this is, um, because I think the writing is the most organic and like the you know, I mean the book is the hardest part. Like book writing is absolutely the hardest part. I don't care what anybody says, I think that you can. Clearly you could just take a pop album and like turn it into a musical. It's all about the book. So, yeah, I think book writing is hard.
Speaker 3:But I also think that just the uncertainty and like you don't really know what's going to happen next and you have to plan as though everything you do is the last time you do it.
Speaker 3:But then also plan as though you've got this like really great plan right Of you know which I do, I totally have a really great plan, but you you don't know what could happen, the world shut down with a pandemic, and like you have to just build so that, even if this doesn't work right now, is it Gutenberg and it comes back 15 years later, is it Merrily that flops and then is like the biggest thing on Broadway.
Speaker 3:So, um, you're kind of like building this thing that is going to exist and scale and be replicated, and so many people are going to play these characters and hopefully that's like that's the hope.
Speaker 3:So many people are going to play it, and that's why I think it's so different from any other kind of art where, like, you make a movie, you make it once, unless there's a reboot, you know, or, and people come in and out of your team just because they're not available or like this, and so, yeah, it is a wild, it's a wild thing and but, yeah, to answer your question, I think just the not the not knowing and and not being in like a lot of control over those pieces of it that there are a lot of people who are, whether they're artistic directors, whether they're theater owners, whether they're producers, who, again, nobody is going to like look at you and be like I'm making this happen, and if they do that, they literally have to own their own theater and like be able to finance the whole thing, because you just need a giant army of people to be able to get a show off the ground and in your opinion, is there a desirable list of ingredients to make a hit musical number or like a musical, or is it just anything can go?
Speaker 3:it's. It's such an interesting question. Are you saying, saying in terms of a song itself or just the whole show?
Speaker 1:Go with the whole show to start with, and then we can maybe dissect into a real hit musical number as a musical? Is there a desired list of ingredients you need in your opinion?
Speaker 3:list of ingredients you need in your opinion? Um, yeah, I, I think so, but I also think that that changes over time, right, like you look at the mega musical right and how expensive those are to produce right now. Um, so I think that there's sort of like the societal stuff that's going on at the same time too, just like whether that's economics and is it too expensive to produce, and I as a writer don't like to let those factors influence me too much. But I am because I'm kind of business minded. I am like I don't want to write things that can't get made, you know, and so like we're not necessarily going to have like an elephant that flies across the stage or you know, like I don't know, like whatever, like no, it must be there for my vision, it just like those are the things that make things like not necessarily producible.
Speaker 3:So, but yeah, so I think that's a moving target a little bit, but I do think at its core, like great writing, I would say great story, but like six isn't really a story. I think it's great writing but it's not really a book, musical, like ultimately, it's kind of its own genre of thing which I love sex, like that's not me trashing it. So I don't think that it even needs to be like the most incredible book of all time, but I think that like heart and authenticity and um, certainly writing things that are like catchy are is like helpful, um. But yeah, I mean that those are the things that I respond to. But other people like love, like super operatic, other you know.
Speaker 1:So I suppose it's all about taste and what you, you know you like and what you enjoy. So, uh good, musical theater number yeah, good what does it need to have?
Speaker 3:um, well, it depends what it's doing in the moment of the show, right? So are we learning about a character? Are we going through like some emotional transformation? So I think that that's a big it depends. But I do think that it needs to have a little bit of a beginning, middle and an end.
Speaker 3:And that, and going back to what I was saying before about like when I used to write songs in high school, I was writing these like very generic pop songs Like I didn't in high school. I was writing these like very generic pop songs Like I didn't. And as soon as I started writing for characters, that's when it like blew up for me. I was like, oh okay, this all makes sense now, Like I'm writing as a character. This is moving the story forward. And so I do think that a good song should move the story forward in some way and tell you, tell you some new information about the character and their either their inner life or, um, what's happening. Uh, but yeah, I love, I love a catchy song Like I.
Speaker 3:One of my favorite shows is Chicago. Like I love. I literally will see Chicago anytime I go to New York. If I don't, I mean I don't, but I would, um, because I walk out with every song in my head like I, that is to me, but that's again, that's a me thing. But it's also a testament to like how long and how successful that show has been. Same as like Wicked, same as so I think you can look a little bit at like what is has worked and continues to work, you know, in terms of what makes a hit. So I mean, I think that kind of pop music that's original, that you know is catchy, and all of that is a good thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Do you have any inspirational composers yourself? Are there any composers out there in the musical theater world that you're like? Yeah, they're class.
Speaker 3:It's interesting. I mean, I feel like my answer now is different than it would have been, just because I feel like, if you think of musical theater composers, I'm like, oh, I love like Lin-Manuel Miranda, like what a, what a champ, like everything that he does is incredible. Um, I, stephen Schwartz like there are so many that uh, have broken the molds and, like you know, stephen Schwartz is much more of like a pop folk sensibility, um, but there's also, when you think of like the greatest composers, not a lot of women like in that circle. So, um, I, I definitely like I thought the music for Sufs and China Top like it was fantastic, like I I am sad that it's closing. I loved that show, I thought it was incredible writing, um, and she's definitely like an inspiration and um, so, yeah, I have different, I guess, like role models and composing for different reasons. But like I also really love Be More Chill. It's like one of my favorite. I love, love, be More Chill, total.
Speaker 3:I feel like it's so weird to be in this industry now because then you're like a fan girl for like people that you meet, because in one of the readings, uh, his, uh, joe iconis's incredibly talented wife, uh, lauren marcus was played jake's mom and in a reading that we did and so he came to the reading and so it was like, oh my god, it's a lot of pressure, um, and then he came to the show at 54 below and he was so kind and complimentary, it was like great work, and I was like this is another moment that like I'm gonna run with this, but, um, so you do end up meeting some of the people that you look up to like in that way, which is super cool how exciting let's get back to millennials are killing musicals in.
Speaker 1:So you had said like the early, like early stages it was, it was filters, it was called filters that was the first draft was okay yeah, when? Where? Where did the name change come from and how did that come about? Um catchy title, like it's brilliant thank you.
Speaker 3:Um, I am trying to remember, I mean everything kind of. It was like a process of like excavating what I was trying to like write and say I I always describe the writing process of like trying to actually like tease out what my brain like, just what my brain like just dumped onto the page. So I think I was. It was probably I don't know, I can't. I honestly would have to go back and look.
Speaker 3:It was maybe a year into it because they started as followers, so they weren't the filters, they were followers and they were Katrina the influencer characters, followers, and I remember being being I was on like an exercise bike or something and I was like like she needs, she needs to have these characters that like sort of visually represent like her social impact and influence.
Speaker 3:And then I think it was after the first zoom reading we did in 2020 that I was like I think that they need to be a little bit more of like an actual presence, so like more like fates as opposed to Greek chorus, but like sort of and yeah, so it just kind of evolved like naturally over time, but the idea of filtering was always there.
Speaker 3:It was just like it took me a couple of drafts to actually like get there and make them not just like backup singers or like kind of a device, but more like we're going to like mess with these people and we're going to, we're going to we're going to change the outcome of the story. And yeah, I think them as like they kind of closest to what they are now was in 2022, and that reading that we did in New York, um, and yeah, and the 54 below show like I feel like that's when they started having lines, they started kind of being involved and, again, they've just continued to evolve over the past two years since then and and remind your listeners again how long has this process been?
Speaker 1:It's been six years, so yeah, I know To this point, do you have a favorite moment in the process? Was there a particular time or thing that happened, or something that clicked that you went? Ah, oh my. God, this is amazing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean there's so many of those Like I I don't know that I could pick one moment, because every revelation has been so cool and there's been so many moments where I'm like nothing could top this. Like I remember, um, because so much of the development happened during the pandemic over zoom, which I didn't know any different, I like I hadn't done it in person, so I was kind of willing to like like no, I'm not stopping, I'm gonna. So we did two equity readings with, you know, like New York actors In 2020, 2021. There was like the New York Theater Bar new work series that I was able to be a part of and Diana Huey, who's been like since 2020, was involved in the show. She's an actress and she's Katrina on the cast recording and has become a good friend since then.
Speaker 3:Like I mean, it's just like I was able to, because of the pandemic in a lot of ways, work with these incredibly talented folks and showcase it and get it start building like a digital footprint for it. And you know that this exists and this is getting like workshopped and worked on. So I mean like every one of those moments like seeing it, like when, you know, on New York Theater Barn and 2021, being able to do it in person for the first time in LA and doing our show at Vitello's, and like the feeling of just like seeing it up on stage in front of audience and having them laugh, developing comedies in front of zoom is like the worst. Yeah, you just like lob a joke out there and there's nothing like no reaction. Um, and like that, so much of this show lives in the like, the laughter and the filters, even like started interacting with the audience and that was like kind of a new thing that I learned towards the end of the off-broadway developmental run and so I've really like leaned into that a little bit more, um, in this next rewrite.
Speaker 3:But I mean hearing crystal and lloyd saying who I am, like come on, like I to like write a song and then have an unbelievable superstar like her put her spin on it is just like what? Like how does this, how does this happen? Um, I mean those, those kinds of moments are just, you know, there, there are too many. And then on the producing side, I feel like it's the same thing.
Speaker 3:Like as a writer there are those moments, but then as a producer is almost equally as exciting, because it's like getting the first producer, co-producers joining the team, like people believing in it and like putting their own money into the show Like it is believing in it and like putting their own money into the show Like it is. It is just such a gratifying process to like have this army of people that believe in this thing so much that they have been just like literally putting their name on it, joining the team. So yeah, I know it's such a like huge response to the question, but I also know now that there are going to be so many more like of those moments that I just don't even know what you know what yeah no, this, this question might be a very unfair one to ask, nico.
Speaker 1:okay, because obviously all of the all of the songs are your babies, right? Do you have a favourite one, or do you have one that just has a lasting memory for you, out of like honest to God? From start to finish, they're absolutely brilliant, like all of them, I'm quite interested. Is there something in there that you were like I will never forget when that number clicked? Or do you have a favorite baby?
Speaker 3:So I guess a complicated answer to that too. So for me, there were moments that things clicked with adulting, for example, when we did LA in 2021. And Ted Arthur, who is now like Mr Broadway working on Back to the Future and all these things. He was the music director, he's now the music supervisor, but he came out and it just wasn't working. And then I was like what if we like double timed it and just like made it more upbeat? And it was like this moment where like yeah, like that was super, like that was like a clicking moment, and then I performed it in front of the cast and everyone was like it was just love it I was like this is what we're doing with it now.
Speaker 3:So that was pretty fun. I hate performing, but like I'll do it if I have to, um, but then writing wise, I think who I am was that song. I literally I wish I could tell you what the writing process was, but I knew I needed that song moment and I sat down at the piano and I wrote it and then I like literally almost in one shot, like it was crazy, like a download, and then I stepped back from the piano. I was like what? Then I sent it to a couple people and they're like oh, that I mean I'll, I'm happy to. If you guys want to hear it, like I'll send it to you.
Speaker 3:I have the voice note from when I did and it was, but it really hasn't changed that much from then. So there are definitely songs that have changed a lot. Like on a plane it was totally different. But that song I was like it just came out, like it was just, and so it's special to me in that way. But I also think it's probably the most like sort of like emotionally vulnerable and like um, but yeah, I wish I could say, oh, yeah, I plotted it out, and then this and then that, it just yeah so that is sensational, that that was, that was fun, though, like that song, of all of the songs, like one that you when.
Speaker 1:When I listen to a cast recording, I'll just listen right from the beginning to the end, and then I'll always go back to a song, and it was that song that I went back to. I was like I have to listen to that one again. Yeah, you just wrote that from start to finish yeah yes, you are absolute. Your talent is insane yeah, I think it's.
Speaker 2:It's. I really like like Santa, please don't go, because as my kids have got older now, um, it is something that I definitely remember like, like threatening them with. So I love that story from like a memory point of view. But I think that that song is just. I think that's probably why you were able to write it in one go, because you are a mum and it's so. The truth in it is just wonderful and it really resonated with me as somebody who they have like 20 hats on their head, so I love it. But my favorite song that I constantly hum is and I feel like we need a petition to make this famous on TikTok is I'm famous on the Internet.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, basic.
Speaker 2:I like that line all the time. I am not famous on the internet, but I'm like why is this not a TikTok like song? Why are people not using this?
Speaker 3:more. Oh my god. Well, maybe when we get to Broadway, right like that, you don't want the lightning to in the bottle to hit before um, or you capture the lightning in a bottle before then. But it's funny that you said that, and thank you guys so much. By the way, it's funny that you said that about Santa don't go. I kind of feel like it might be my favorite song on the album Because I just love everyone in it together and I love just the way it sounds like that one is just a great sounding track. So like I don't know, I probably would be my. If I was gonna like listen to one over and over, it would be that one and then how did the cast recording come about and how did that feel going?
Speaker 1:oh my god, we're getting a cast recording.
Speaker 3:This is I mean it's so funny because I feel like there's nothing that sort of uh like it. It was all planned. It was really because I'm still on the producing team and was like, again, I'm trying to build these things, that it's like, if this is it, if we're never doing it again, I want to have something that is, you know, commemorates that we did this.
Speaker 3:And um, so, when we were building the budget and the plan and all of that, it was something that I really insisted on, like this is something that we need, and like we need to add this to the budget in order to do it.
Speaker 3:And it's honestly, a great thing for the actors at the end of the day, because these off Broadway things, especially at nonprofits, that are like two-week runs, it doesn't pay a lot of money, right, and it sucks and it needs to be better, and I now have had like, now that I've lived through it, I'm like, oh, this is, it can be done better than this, but it is a great way, because you get paid the SAG equity standards and so they get a nice kind of bump in pay at the end for for doing it. So I think I would love to see it be a thing that gets added on to a lot more of these kinds of productions, but, um, yeah, it was definitely, it was definitely the plan, though, and I think uh, I think everyone should. I won't play coy like oh yeah, yeah, we didn't know, but no it was.
Speaker 1:It's so lovely to have for everyone involved. You've mentioned a couple of times your different roles. You know producer, writer. Is that difficult in a project being all of those things? Do they conflict with each other, or are you very good, or is it easy to compartmentalize them all?
Speaker 3:So I it depends on the day but I would say that if I wasn't a producer also, I don't know what I would have been doing most of this past year. You know what I mean. Like I and I have been writing too and I'm working on, you know I did, we did a table read back in March with you know the new draft, and I'm working on another draft right now. But I'm kind of the kind of writer also and I think I said this before of like I don't want to write things that people are not going to see and it just is. It's so much work and so much effort to write a musical and the barrier is so high that I want to know what's happening next and like what the plan is. So I have a very hard time motivating myself to sit and do a rewrite if I don't know why I'm doing it. Because the truth of the matter is, if I don't know let's say some cruise company was like we're going to put this on every cruise ship then that's going to be a different rewrite than you know, broadway, right. So I right or wrong. That is just kind of like how I operate and yeah, so, but I do think that I am able to separate the hats and like, have producer hat on and and pitch or, you know, talk the business of it and then take that hat off and get into the room.
Speaker 3:What I realized after this last round was that I needed more people, like on the producing side, on my team, to handle stuff while I'm in a creative process, or sometimes just to, if I'm in a room and I need to just be the writer on a call and have somebody else thinking about the business. So, um, I've been working for a year and a half, also since then, um, producer Cody Lassen. He's a, uh, incredible Broadway producer. Um, he had been unofficially mentoring me for about two years before. Um had been unofficially mentoring me for about two years before. You know, after the Off-Broadway run I went to him and was like listen, I'm at the point right now where I need support. The team is growing. Would this be a good time for you, like, if you have the capacity to come on as an executive producer and kind of help guide the process, the next steps, all of these conversations as the team grows, because ultimately you end up with these days for Broadway like 40 or 50 co-producers.
Speaker 3:It's a lot of. It's a big team, right, and you need someone feeding people information and there's only one of me and I'm doing everything. I'm doing book lyrics, music, so and I know where I need help. It's like, okay, I need help on the music side, I need help with this, I need help with that. And that was where I was like I need help right now for this.
Speaker 3:You know, going forward and so that he was like he had been a friend of the project and a fan of the project for a while, so he was like absolutely, this is, this is the time. And so then we started working together and it's been great and that's really helped just kind of narrow the focus of like what are the next steps and what are we doing. But it's so nice to sometimes be like hey, cody, I think it's best if you take that call, or I think it's better if you talk on this call, because I just need to be there as the writer and I know that the team's going to keep growing too. I mean, you look at these lead producing teams. It's usually teams of two, three more people once you get kind of there, because you do need people with different sets of expertises on the team um at that point so, producer nico, what is next for millennials?
Speaker 1:is there any plans in the pipeline? What's happening currently?
Speaker 3:so what's next for the show? Um, we I mean obviously more rewrites, and then I can't say too much at this point, but there will be a workshop next spring, um, and there will be. It's looking like a world premiere production, uh, in the fall.
Speaker 1:So oh, that's so exciting we cannot you have to go wherever it is in the world you're flying out wherever it is.
Speaker 3:I can't say where, I can't say when, but uh, I, because you know things are not signed yet, but it's looking really, really promising and exciting with some really great partners. So, um, I'm, next year is going to be wild.
Speaker 2:I'm super excited for it that's amazing, we're just delighted that there is a next step you know, because it is. It's so magical that, like anybody we say we listen to, like I've got any new musicals to listen to, we constantly keep saying well, there it is. Oh my gosh, yes, I'm amazing that more people are going to be able to be exposed to your wonderful work.
Speaker 1:And it was a real hit. When you know, we talked about you and your musical on the podcast. It really got our listeners going as well, so that's fantastic. I mean, our podcast is all about what have musicals taught us. So I suppose, to round off our fantastic conversation and chat with you today, nico, what have musicals taught you?
Speaker 3:oh, I mean so many things writing musicals or taking in musicals or just like every or both.
Speaker 1:All of it, nico all of it.
Speaker 3:I mean definitely to in terms of the writing, like trusting my instincts, whether it's on the creative side or the producing side. Trusting the process. I think you know, because I've done it enough times, that I'm like I'm done, this is the best it could be, and then it just it gets even better and it goes even further and so, but then you see that kind of starting to get like less and less and less the further you go along. So, definitely just trusting the process, trusting sort of you know the universe to work things out when you are doing good work, making the right connections and all of that. And, yeah, patience, and like I've learned a lot of patience, that it is a long, long process.
Speaker 3:It is not Hollywood. There's no overnight successes. Successes, you really have to be out there growing your brand and you know whether it's for you as a writer or for your shows, and so, yeah, I think those are the big things and I get also just the musical theater is, you know, it's magical and it's worth it. Like, again, when all the things come together in the right way, it's truly there is nothing like it, and imagine that feeling and it's like your own thing that you wrote and you're like it is like just from parent time, you know.
Speaker 1:You deserve all the successes in the world. You've clearly worked extremely hard and your project already was good, so I can't imagine what it's going to be like with these rewrites and the work you continue to pump into it. So all the best for next year. Yeah, certainly, musical Lyrical Lingo are very excited and we'll be supporting you every step of the way we'll be following the process.
Speaker 3:thank you, well, I'll have to. I'll keep you updated on everything that's going to happen, um, so you'll know once we can actually start talking about it. But I appreciate so much the support and the kind words. I mean, again, these are the moments that for me, it's like I don't know that people 6, 7, 8,000 miles away are finding something in the work that I'm doing.
Speaker 3:I'm just sitting here in my office in LA, so it's like, really, you know and as a side note, my other show Winner is being workshopped right now by both students at NYCDA and students at Florida State University, like in the same timeframe. So it's just you can kind of I guess that's another thing that I've learned is like you don't know how your work impacts other people or the scope of that, and again, to kind of just keep doing good work and keep putting it out there and you know it'll, it'll all pay off, or or I mean it has. This is, you know, again, I same mindset of if this is as far as anything goes, it's incredible to have even one person connect to the material.
Speaker 1:So thank you no thank you, and thank you so much for your time this morning. Yeah, yeah, hopefully there's. You can take a. Can you have an off day or are you going to be going right on board and doing a wee bit more more work on it today?
Speaker 3:I mean, it's always the the schedule of the parent. Artist producer is you.
Speaker 2:You just don't know what is going to happen at any moment so good luck with everything and again, thank you so much for taking time to speak to us. We really appreciate it and to any listeners out there that haven't listened to.
Speaker 1:Millennials Are Killing Musicals. Go listen to it now. Where can our followers follow you, nico?
Speaker 3:You can follow me at stuff Nico likes. You can follow on both Instagram and TikTok and you can follow the show at MAKM musical on TikTok and at millennials curling musicals on Instagram. But yeah, just follow, stay tuned, and we'll be posting stuff as stuff comes out about what's happening.
Speaker 1:Can't wait. We'll be watching very closely. Thanks again.
Speaker 2:Nikki, thank you, have a good day. Bye.
